Re-building a cutout relay

[awander]

Ran #2 rebuild for about 200 miles, and the charging system stopped working on the way home. Need to investigate to figure out why-of course, I suspect the relay is not pulling in, but.......?

[awander]

Well-it wasn't the relay-checked good with an ohmmeter-but no output from generator.

Then I noticed, with engine running, generator wasn't turning.

Found this:

MVC-219S.JPG (48.31 KiB) Viewed 1697 times

I haven't opened up the gearcase yet-hope there is no damage in there! I didn't hear any strange noises at all, so maybe I will be lucky.

[awander]

Here's what I found inside the gearcase:

MVC-221S.JPG (70.87 KiB) Viewed 1693 times

It looks like there is no damage to any of the other gears, no marks inside the case or the cover that look like they were caused by the gear coming off the generator shaft.

Now-the 64,000 dollar question:

Where is the pin that used to hold the gear on to the generator shaft?

If I recall correct;y, it was a roll pin. There are no "pieces" of roll pin inside the holes in the gear, or in the shaft, so it doesn't seem like the pin sheared. I am guessing it worked it's way out of the hole. But I can;t find it anywhere in the case!

There is still a pool of oil in the bottom of the case(is this the sump that feeds the scavenger side of the oil pump?). i dragged a powerful magnet around in there, and nothing stuck to it.

The only other thing I can think of to do is to take the oil pump off and look inside it, and in the passage in the bottom of the case.

(or, could I possibly have forgotten to re-install the pin months ago when I had the gear off?)

[awander]

I really didn't want to take the oil pump off.

But I was also sure that I wouldn't;t have installed the generator without the drive gear pin.

I spent about half an hour trying to think of a secure way to slide a small super magnet into the oil passage that leads to the scavenger side of the pump.

Then it hit me-I had some cylindrical super-magnets, about 3/32" diameter and 3/8" long. I slipped one into the end of a piece of thin heat-shrink tubing, slid a thin steel wire in from the other end of the tubing, and shrunk it all together-I now had a flexible, thin probe with a powerful magnet at the end-and most important, i was pretty sure the magnet could NOT get free.

I slipped the probe into the oil passage, pulled it out, and saw this:

MVC-223S.JPG (17.84 KiB) Viewed 1687 times

This made me very happy.

Now, I want to put the gear back on the generator-should the pin be a roll pin(what was on there already? Or should it be a solid pin, peened over into the countersink on the ends of the holes in the gear?

[George Greer]

Andy..

All the roll pins, spring pins that I have ever worked with ... either on military aircraft, or automobiles or my wla........

They all had a 'Tap it in with a Hammer" fit....if it is as all loose in either bore, (on the gear or shaft) go to the next size larger.

I have also seen once the roll pin is in place, and trimed to flush, wrap a piece of .032" safety wire thru the hole, and about 5-7 pigtail twists on the end.

That bugger won't come out then.

George

[john HD]

i have solid pins in both of my bikes. i used tapered pins from ace hardware driven tight, then they are peened over as you describe.

looks like you had a very lucky day so far!

i managed to get a broken screw head out of my trans using a similar method! there was a lot of high fives and yahoos in the shop that day!

john

[awander]

George, John:

thanks for the replies!

I am pretty sure I will put a solid pin in, and peen it over on the ends. Palmer confused me at first, because all of the early paragraphs call it a "lock pin", but when he talks about rebuilding it, and installing the pin, he says to peen it over.

[Keitha]

Great article on repairing these cut-outs.
With the initial wrap of 32 AWG fine shunt wire on the core, would it be a good idea to have the end electrically connected to the core. If a very small hole eg 1/32" could be drilled into the core to a depth of about a 1/16", then the end of the fine wire could be soft soldered into the hole. It would be fiddly, but can be done.
Also the 1300 turns or so of the fine wire.
How long would this wire be, any idea? Just don't wont to buy a 5km roll if I can just buy 100 meters for example.
Thanks Keith

[awander]

Keitha:

I solder the inner end of the fine wire to the frame(along with the corresponding end of the heavy winding), which is electrically attached to the core. It would be possible to do as you said, but I don't see any advantage to it. Bringing the inner end out where you can work with it, and physically see and measure continuity to the connection when the relay is assembled, gives me peace of mind. The very act of doing the winding might cause the fine wire to break at the solder joint, which would be an obvious point of stress.

The 1300 turns of 36AWG magnet wire that I used measured about 62 ohms-this would equate to just about 150 feet of wire.

[58flh]

HEY ANDY!---YOU got lucky that gear didnt wedge in the pinion or between any gear for that fact!--I got lucky to ,about 5-6 months ago my genny gear fell into the gearcase!--I got lucky pulling all out of the hole but the locnut!--I pulled the cover & there it sat right next to the pinion gear in a pool of oil!--The problem---I got a rebuild kit from JP!, & the locnut was offcenter it olny had about a 32nd of wall on 1 side & about a 1/8 on the other!, So it craked & slowly backed off!--I put a new nut on & ALL has been well! since. Glad you got that pin out!!!!--GREAT idea on the little magnet to go thru the hole! ,Epect something in the mail this week!---RICHIE

[awander]

Hiya Richie:

i will look for the package. it;s a 6V regulator you want me to look at, right?

Though i would have a little extra free time, since I lost my job 3 weeks ago, but I have been working harder than ever since then!

[Cotten]

Andy!

Did any of the handfull of relays I sent you ever work out?

....Cotten

[awander]

Hi Cottebn:

I have rebuilt 2 of them, and wanted to test them thoroughly before saying they were "good".

Unfortunately I have not been riding as much as i would like)lost my job 2 weeks ago and have been scrambling to find work!).

I do have one with 400 or 500 miles on it, that worked well, and that I wanted to send to you to get another opinion on how well they work.

However, you have confused me a bit(and I should have followed up) by saying previously that you would "never run it".

Let me know if you do want it, and I'll send it off this week.

The other rebuild is currently on my bike, and is also working well.

[Cotten]

Andy!

Of course I myself would never run it, as I like 12v systems.

But please understand that I represent many who are purists.


...Cotten

[58flh]

Andy !--The Bosch is a 12V-REG.---Richie