Another starting story-Question??
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Eric, I'm heading north in the morning, and will be on the road for two days. Shall I throw an electronic ignition coil and degree wheel in the truck?
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Thank you for the offer. But you have enough to deal with making that kind of trip. I will try changing a few more parts and see what happens. Once again that is very kind of you and I appreciate the offer. Eric
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Have you tried a fresh set of plugs? Even if your plugs are brand new.....don't take it for granted they are ok...especially if they are cham-pee-ons. I did a top end once only to find out after bolting everything back to together that it was my brand new plugs that had been causing my problems.
Good luck....Mike
Good luck....Mike
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Hi, Yes tried new plugs and wires. It did the same thing with the plugs that were in it to begin with. Waiting on my friend to come over now with a new cam cover gasket. I am going to install his OEM cam and see what happens. I compared the sifton cam and the stock one and there is some variation but I am not sure that it isnt just in the grind of the cam. We are going to rig up some sort of hillbilly device to compare the 2 closer before I install the factory one today. Thanks for the help. Eric
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Eric, just a few last words before I hit the road.
You could verify your timing by pulling the plugs, connecting them to the wires, grounding the bodies, then slowly turning the engine to see if they both fire as the timing mark enters the window. Having a helper would be ideal.
The retarded timing can be checked by dividing the stroke by 180 degrees, marking a wooden dowel or similar to show 5 degrees BTDC (which as I recall is where it should fire in the retarded position), and following the piston to TDC with the dowel while watching to see if the spark coincides with the mark.
Turning the engine by putting a wrench on the sprocket shaft nut will give you much better control than turning with the kicker.
Have you checked the spark on both cylinders?
I'll check in when I get to PA. Best of luck.
Regards,
John
You could verify your timing by pulling the plugs, connecting them to the wires, grounding the bodies, then slowly turning the engine to see if they both fire as the timing mark enters the window. Having a helper would be ideal.
The retarded timing can be checked by dividing the stroke by 180 degrees, marking a wooden dowel or similar to show 5 degrees BTDC (which as I recall is where it should fire in the retarded position), and following the piston to TDC with the dowel while watching to see if the spark coincides with the mark.
Turning the engine by putting a wrench on the sprocket shaft nut will give you much better control than turning with the kicker.
Have you checked the spark on both cylinders?
I'll check in when I get to PA. Best of luck.
Regards,
John
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Eric, been following this thread, and have a couple of questions.
Are you using stock flywheels/cam? If not, what?
Are you using the time honored method of 2-3 primer kicks full choke on, switch off, then half choke, ignition on, crack throttle to start?
Also, each engine has a "sweet spot" as regards retard at starting. Have you tried using full retard, then progressively advancing the timer to find if you get better results?
This presumes that timing and carbureation are close, and it seems to be the case for you.
Most of my machines like about half retard for starting, But it will vary. And the Hall Effect trigger may cause your machine to want a different "sweet spot".
One technique, which you may already have tried, is to start with full retard, full choke, start kicking. Slowly advance spark with each series of kicks (as you catch your breath), back off the choke as well, using different part throttle positions, 'till you get results. Periodically add to the routine several Kicks full throttle, choke off, to clean out any flooded condition, in case you're erroring in a too rich mixture, which caused nothing to happen. If it was flooded, you should get some sort of combustion during the "cleaning out" kick series, another clue to mixture. Then, back to the beginning of the routine. This should lead to some circumstance where you'll get some activity from the engine. At that point fine tune fuel and or retard to improve your results.
As I said, you may already have been doing this, just had to check.
Disclamier!!
My '65 bobber gave me fits starting for 3 years till I finally fixed it.
Starting as a stock 74 with an Andrews A cam that started well, ( DC linkert carb). I stroked it to 84", S&S wheels. It became an absolute pig to start. Ran great once started. Tried lots of different carb solutions, as well as the technique described above, no help. Eventually, Switched to Andrews B cam, more overlap, less static compression, and the lighter stroker flywheels had the momentum to carry through to a point where the mixture would ignite and push forward, not backfire. The timing on it still needs full retard to start.
Anyway, that's the reason for asking about engine configuration.
Good Luck.
DD
Are you using stock flywheels/cam? If not, what?
Are you using the time honored method of 2-3 primer kicks full choke on, switch off, then half choke, ignition on, crack throttle to start?
Also, each engine has a "sweet spot" as regards retard at starting. Have you tried using full retard, then progressively advancing the timer to find if you get better results?
This presumes that timing and carbureation are close, and it seems to be the case for you.
Most of my machines like about half retard for starting, But it will vary. And the Hall Effect trigger may cause your machine to want a different "sweet spot".
One technique, which you may already have tried, is to start with full retard, full choke, start kicking. Slowly advance spark with each series of kicks (as you catch your breath), back off the choke as well, using different part throttle positions, 'till you get results. Periodically add to the routine several Kicks full throttle, choke off, to clean out any flooded condition, in case you're erroring in a too rich mixture, which caused nothing to happen. If it was flooded, you should get some sort of combustion during the "cleaning out" kick series, another clue to mixture. Then, back to the beginning of the routine. This should lead to some circumstance where you'll get some activity from the engine. At that point fine tune fuel and or retard to improve your results.
As I said, you may already have been doing this, just had to check.
Disclamier!!
My '65 bobber gave me fits starting for 3 years till I finally fixed it.
Starting as a stock 74 with an Andrews A cam that started well, ( DC linkert carb). I stroked it to 84", S&S wheels. It became an absolute pig to start. Ran great once started. Tried lots of different carb solutions, as well as the technique described above, no help. Eventually, Switched to Andrews B cam, more overlap, less static compression, and the lighter stroker flywheels had the momentum to carry through to a point where the mixture would ignite and push forward, not backfire. The timing on it still needs full retard to start.
Anyway, that's the reason for asking about engine configuration.
Good Luck.
DD
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Eric:
Buddy, you're getting tons of advice. Hope it's not overwhelming you, it's just that everybody really does want to help you.
Now for my $.02
Backfiring through the carb usually means the mixture is too lean. Pair that with your "dry plugs" and it seems even more certain that your idle mixture is too low. Trying increasing the richness a bit.
Keep your chin up !!
Buddy, you're getting tons of advice. Hope it's not overwhelming you, it's just that everybody really does want to help you.
Now for my $.02
Backfiring through the carb usually means the mixture is too lean. Pair that with your "dry plugs" and it seems even more certain that your idle mixture is too low. Trying increasing the richness a bit.
Keep your chin up !!
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
hi Eric,make sure to check cam end play......with respect....JR....also what cam #is on it?
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
eric there will be two lines scribed on the inside of the cam gear they should line up with what looks like a keyway. very easy to check. if they don,t line up you will never get it to run right.
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Good Afternoon! Todays recap- I could not see any difference with both cams relationship from gear position and angle of the lobes. Used a very primative way to check. I measured the lobes etc on the camshaft that my friend provided and checked it to the table in Palmers book. It checked out to be a standard 74 shaft. I installed it. Reset valves again have 90psi cranking compression. No start only one minor backfire through carb. I was at 2.5 and 3 turns out on the low side and using different combos of timer position/choke and throttle positions. Tomorrow I am going to change the pickup in the distributor from my other bike that starts and runs. There is spark on both plugs cranking out of the motor. However I am running out of things to try. I welcome all questions and sugestions and personal thanks to all of you! Eric
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
You might want to check the timer clip on the bottom on the timer to see if you have good contact. This could possibly cause a problem with the timer not making a constant circuit?
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
dittos on that!ozwick86 wrote:You might want to check the timer clip on the bottom on the timer to see if you have good contact. This could possibly cause a problem with the timer not making a constant circuit?
john
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Problem identified-Lack of fuel. I changed all electronics from one bike to the other. The bike that has not had starting issues fires-up as usual no problems. The problem bike will now start cold if plugs are dipped in fuel and mixture ic cranked out rich. Once it fires up it can be trimmed down to good performance and idle. I pressure checked intake again and also used another {undesireable method} while running and it does not show a leak. I you put the palm of your hand over the carb opening and kick there is quite a bite of suction felt.and fuel on your palm. After the first start and mixture set correctly it is a one kicker. Are there any common problems with linkert carbs that will cause this? Float has been re-checked 1/4. Using the choke seems to have no effect on the cold start. Thanks Eric
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Eric!Eric S wrote:Problem identified-Lack of fuel. I changed all electronics from one bike to the other. The bike that has not had starting issues fires-up as usual no problems. The problem bike will now start cold if plugs are dipped in fuel and mixture ic cranked out rich. Once it fires up it can be trimmed down to good performance and idle. I pressure checked intake again and also used another {undesireable method} while running and it does not show a leak. I you put the palm of your hand over the carb opening and kick there is quite a bite of suction felt.and fuel on your palm. After the first start and mixture set correctly it is a one kicker. Are there any common problems with linkert carbs that will cause this? Float has been re-checked 1/4. Using the choke seems to have no effect on the cold start. Thanks Eric
There are lots of age-related problems possible with Linkerts, but before we get into each one, we need to narrow things down a bit.
First let me ask: Which exactly are you "cranking out rich" and "trimming"?
And how much?
Does "dipping" the plugs alone allow a cold start, if the carb has been tuned comfortably when warm?
(And please forgive me,
But I really must ask for certainty,
Did you bubble-test the pan cover screws over each intake port?
Was the manifold's flange ground flat like the carb's?)
The notion of hand-choking drawing in less fuel than 'dipping' plugs is a chin-scratcher.
Even worn Linkerts usually start like a dream. That's why we should look for other culprits first.
....Cotten
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Re: Another starting story-Question??
Didnt you mention that those were STD heads? Are they the ones that are set up like a Shovelhead as in intake and exhaust? If so, what kind of manifold are you using and where did you get it? Can you get a pic of it? Linkerts on Shovels is pretty rare, I think they only came from the factory that way in '66. The fact that you dont have an accellorator pump could be an issue.