hard starting 65 fl

65eglide
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#31

Post by 65eglide »

yes it pushes the starter gear onto the starter ring on the clutch, but that's not the problem the starter engages fine and tries to turn the motor, just seems like it straining to do so
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#32

Post by steve_wood »

...sometime the starter engages sometimes not...
This statement made me think that maybe the nose gear was not always engaging....
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#33

Post by 65eglide »

steve_wood wrote:
...sometime the starter engages sometimes not...
This statement made me think that maybe the nose gear was not always engaging....

sorry ,what I meant by that was it didn't seems like the battery was putting out enough juice to throw the solenoid out, as sometimes all I got what a click other times it turned it
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#34

Post by john HD »

been following this and have a suggestion. quick and dirty trouble shooting is needed.

take a heavy gauge set of jumper cables and eliminate all of the variables on each side of the circuit. start with the negative side and connect the case of the starter directly to the negative post of the battery and try it. if it works better you have a bad ground connection. cable, bolt, star washer etc.

then take the cable and directly connect the soleniod to the positive terminal of the battery (you may need a small jumper to the little post to get it to energize) and see how it spins. this removes all the cables relays and buttons in the circuit. -DANGER- make sure the bike is in neutral and your fingers are nowheres near the primary if you have it open!

if none of the above works the starter or the battery is the culprit. if you have load tested your battery or use a known good one this leaves only the starter as the suspect.

john
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#35

Post by fourthgear »

Did you try turning her over with the spark plugs removed (cold )? should crank over quite lively & that should tell you if all the start circuit stuff is OK or not .I ask again because , if your timing or because some mechanical problem can be causing her to turn over slowly.
All the good electrics are not going to help if some thing is binding or the timing is off to bog the motor down . That includes valve train timing, lifters tight ,even hyd. lifters.
When its cold the oil is cold & if its high vis. ( 60 # ) the motor will have a slow turn over.
It may be nothing at all & like you said ,you are used to the newer type motor turning over. Hell, I had a 76 electraglide and it would be slow to turn over once in a while ,but always started. New electric this or that ,timing ,always did it & always started & she didn't care if it was cold or warm. Could be a tight spot in the primary chain ,ect..
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#36

Post by 65eglide »

Since were getting hammered with about a foot of snow tomorrow, I'll give the above suggestions a try.
what's even weirder about this is the starting problem is not consistant. One time I'll try and start it and it fires right up another time and all I'll get is a click from the solenoid, try it again and the starter turns really slow but does start it. yesterday tried it after letting the bike sit in cold garage all day, had the choke on the second click, hit the starter button and I didn't even hear the starter turn over and the bike fired right up in about 1 second.....weird....
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#37

Post by Cotten »

Now it sounds like the contact disc in the solenoid has arc'd severely enough to form areas of resistance.

Strike three if it is an Accel.

Tragically, there may be no other "manufacturer" offering replacement hardware for the vintage motorcycle market.

But surely there is a quality supplier for the auto market wih similar solenoids?


....Cotten
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#38

Post by windweaver »

think cotton hit the cause of your problems. WW
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#39

Post by NightShift »

Dear 65eglide,
Try flipping the disc over and scraping the contacts. With the battery ground off of course. Dont forget to re-polarize the gener-tater.
I think real solenoid caps were bakelite. New stuff breaks like a tombstone tailight.

If you know what I mean,
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#40

Post by fourthgear »

65eglide wrote:trying to figure out whats going on with this, seem sometimes hitting the starter nothing, all lights bright and battery is fully charged. other times cranks right up. when it doesn't start a few kicks and she fires, then tried tried the electric start and it's fine. I've replaced all the wiring, starter, generator, solenoid, battery wires, start switch. any suggestions?


Not saying a new anything is always good ,but a new one with burnt contact right off the bat ?
Some put a ground wire directly from the starter casing to the battery ground on the frame , might help .
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#41

Post by 65eglide »

So what do you think...solenoid..
this is what it looked like when i took it apart..also did a load test, battery was going to 5.5-6 volts when trying to start
solenoid_edited-1.jpg
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#42

Post by Panhead Ed »

Hey that washer looks burnt,, could very well be the culprit. when you reassemble that soleniod take a good look to see that it sets square with the housing , if its not carefully bend the mounting bracket so it aligns square , its an often overlooked problem.
.....also the ground is the most important connection on you ride !
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#43

Post by Panhead Ed »

Im in a strange mood but if you look over to the there at my info you will notice I have a 76 FXE ---- the "E" stands for "electric" start! I went 29 years useing the pedal cuz I was too stuborn to make mine work right but age set in and the dam thing got kinda handy when the Kehin would sneeze the fire out . not to mention being emmbarassing! so for her 30th birthday I got an S&S super "E" and fixed the dam "E"lectric start and man is that one cool button !
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#44

Post by Cotten »

Panhead Ed wrote:Im in a strange mood but if you look over to the there at my info you will notice I have a 76 FXE ---- the "E" stands for "electric" start! I went 29 years useing the pedal cuz I was too stuborn to make mine work right but age set in and the dam thing got kinda handy when the Kehin would sneeze the fire out . not to mention being emmbarassing! so for her 30th birthday I got an S&S super "E" and fixed the dam "E"lectric start and man is that one cool button !
Panhead Ed!

Good thing you didn't have a Linkert, or you still wouldn't have bothered to fix the starter.

Back to the solenoid disc and contacts,
Just flipping the disc and dressing the contacts in the cap works, as long as the cause for the excessive arcing is cured.
Priority one is a relay, and the second is to stay away from pressure washers.

Electrics confuse me. Can we think of any other causes for arcing?


....Cotten
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Re: hard starting 65 fl

#45

Post by fourthgear »

65eglide wrote:So what do you think...solenoid..
this is what it looked like when i took it apart..also did a load test, battery was going to 5.5-6 volts when trying to start
solenoid_edited-1.jpg
Some here will have to say for sure ,but that's some low voltage to me. What battery do you have & do you use a battery tender to charge it & keep it up to spec. ? I see you said you changed just about every thing ,but I don't see "new Battery " in that list.You know you can get bad Batt. right from the get go.

Low voltage can cause that type of arcing because its not pulling the solinoid in with authority & making good contact with the contacts.
A weak batt. will do that .. Check & clean all contact points for your starter circuit.Where they fasten, are all clean & tight.
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