1973 FLH top end and possible other issue?

[1957flhchop]

I have adjusted the valves and the timing on my Shovel and ridden it a little. But, there are a couple things that have prevented me from riding it very far. I have been using 20w50 oil and the oil pressure appears to be good(35ish lbs on startup, 5-8 lbs when HOT).

1) When the engine is cold or even when it is somewhat warm(ridden a few miles, air temps in the 80s), the valvetrain doesn't make much noise(my opinion based on the Pan I used to ride). But, when the engine gets to full operating temp the valvetrain is noisier than I would have expected. Everything still seems to function OK, but noisy.

2) Once again, the only thing I have to base my comparison/assessment on is the '57 FLH I used to ride. But, it seems to me like it doesn't sound quite right in the mid range of rpms. That is, at idle it sounds good and when I already have the rpms up and then give it more throttle it also sounds pretty good. But, when I am initially accelerating it sounds off. Kind of like the jap v twins with open exhaust. The bike has the shorter drag pipes on it(almost identical to the ones that were on my Pan). Any ideas? This is the first Shovel I have ever had, so I'm not sure what to expect.

Thanks in advance. I appreciate your patience dealing with someone who is just kind of winging it since all the people in my personal life who would normally have helped me with this are either now deceased or in a state of failing mental health(Alzheimers/Dementia).

[RooDog]

Lose the drag pipes. Get some decent mufflers that sound good, and then you can start tuning that bike. Unless you are fond of a shitty running loud & noisy motorcycle....
....RooDog....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjKUKhHQLHg

[1957flhchop]

Lose the drag pipes. Get some decent mufflers that sound good, and then you can start tuning that bike. Unless you are fond of a shitty running loud & noisy motorcycle....
....RooDog....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjKUKhHQLHg

To each their own I suppose. The Pan I used to own had basically identical pipes and it ran quite well and sounded fantastic in my opinion. My twin cam also has drag pipes(although longer than my old Pan and my current Shovel) and they also sound great and(with some minor carb mods) that bike runs REALLY well.

[RUBONE]

I personally hate drag pipes on a street bike. Noisy (you may like it, everyone else doesn't, and that actually matters), difficult to tune (no back pressure sucks with most cams), and incredibly inefficient power wise unless you are running a turbo or nitro...
If the top end is noisy it is likely tappet noise, very common on mid '70s Shovels.
Mid '70s shovels suck at producing power. The combination of carbs, timing, sketchy oil delivery, etc, all work against you. They can be beasts, don't expect that up front!
Early shovels ('66-'69), were like Panhead on steroids, '72-79 were factory choked...
And none come close tom a Knuckle!!

[panhead_kicker]

Have you checked your rocker arm end play? Source of a lot of topend tikity for a shovel.

[Andygears]

Have you checked your rocker arm end play? Source of a lot of topend tikity for a shovel.

Agreed, even tightening the rocker shaft nuts can quiet things sometimes. And loosen the oil line to the front head to see oil delivery. And check your lifters, maybe somebody put solids in there, or worse, those solid lift adapters.

Andygears

[panheadrider1961]

Relation to sound a loud ticking or 2 hammers tapping? Once a shovelhead comes to temperature it grows and and is a little nosier than a pan ride evo that is in good shape and you will tell difference in all 3 then make your conclusio on noise factor

[1957flhchop]

I personally hate drag pipes on a street bike. Noisy (you may like it, everyone else doesn't, and that actually matters), difficult to tune (no back pressure sucks with most cams), and incredibly inefficient power wise unless you are running a turbo or nitro...
If the top end is noisy it is likely tappet noise, very common on mid '70s Shovels.
Mid '70s shovels suck at producing power. The combination of carbs, timing, sketchy oil delivery, etc, all work against you. They can be beasts, don't expect that up front!
Early shovels ('66-'69), were like Panhead on steroids, '72-79 were factory choked...
And none come close tom a Knuckle!!

Probably should have mentioned initially, the carb is an old S&S Super E.
Can a person put more advance in the timing than the Harley adjustment spec? Or is that just asking for trouble?

Also, I'm curious what made the early Shovels better than the Pan?

[1957flhchop]

Have you checked your rocker arm end play? Source of a lot of topend tikity for a shovel.

Agreed, even tightening the rocker shaft nuts can quiet things sometimes. And loosen the oil line to the front head to see oil delivery. And check your lifters, maybe somebody put solids in there, or worse, those solid lift adapters.

Andygears

How much delivery should I expect to see when it's hot? Also, would it make a measurable difference if I were to install one of those oil line setups where it Y's at the bottom and has a similar line going up to each cylinder?

Here's a pic of my lifters that I posted on another thread.

lifters 1.jpg

[RooDog]

That motor has newer parts that 1973.
AM lifter blocks and lifters.
"80" jugs,
O-ring push rod tubes began in 1979/80.

[1957flhchop]

That motor has newer parts that 1973.
AM lifter blocks and lifters.
"80" jugs,
O-ring push rod tubes began in 1979/80.

Thanks for the heads up.

Curious, what indicates different jugs with a picture that I'll admit is certainly not great?

[RooDog]

The square lug on the front of the jug at the base....
Also, the Allen screws in the lifter blocks are most likely 1/4-20 used from 1976 and up....

[nifty]

I personally hate drag pipes on a street bike. Noisy (you may like it, everyone else doesn't, and that actually matters), difficult to tune (no back pressure sucks with most cams), and incredibly inefficient power wise unless you are running a turbo or nitro...
If the top end is noisy it is likely tappet noise, very common on mid '70s Shovels.
Mid '70s shovels suck at producing power. The combination of carbs, timing, sketchy oil delivery, etc, all work against you. They can be beasts, don't expect that up front!
Early shovels ('66-'69), were like Panhead on steroids, '72-79 were factory choked...
And none come close tom a Knuckle!!

Probably should have mentioned initially, the carb is an old S&S Super E.
Can a person put more advance in the timing than the Harley adjustment spec? Or is that just asking for trouble?

Also, I'm curious what made the early Shovels better than the Pan?

re ignition advance: yes, and yes.

re Pan & Shovel performance: biggest gain; the Pan T intake manifold & ports were ditched for Shovel Y manifold & ports, straighter, better flowing shot at intake valve. higher performance, even with reduced valve lift due to early shovel rocker ratio (fixed later).

BTW your followers look like early Pan style solids and alum pushrod also not stock Shovel.

IMO Shovel rocker shafts should be a slight interference fit in rocker box, particularly at oil end, loose to start with, will be looser when hot and oil will be dumped into spring chamber, instead of going to all rockers. Shafts loose in rockerbox also another source of noise. Split or Y rocker oil feed pipe is a band-aid.

Nifty

[RooDog]

re Pan & Shovel performance: biggest gain; the Pan T intake manifold & ports were ditched for Shovel Y manifold & ports, straighter, better flowing shot at intake valve. higher performance, even with reduced valve lift due to early shovel rocker ratio (fixed later).

Nifty
[/quote]

What's this about?

[nifty]

To answer I will start a new post
Nifty