'68 Juice Brake Shoes

[Mongrel505558]

I recently bought a pair of rear brake shoes with linings (41801-63 for 63-72 BT) for my '68 shovel and they are wider than what was on the brake plate before. When you drop one into the drum it's pretty much flush with the drum edge, which it seems correct. One lining is narrower than the other, which the factory manual says goes toward the front of the bike. So far so good. However; when I assemble them to the brake plate the two brake shoe spring clips won't install. The shoes' center "ribs" (not sure what else to call them) are too far away from the plate - maybe by a quarter inch.

As I mentioned above, the existing shoes that I removed are narrower than these new ones. I believe that they were meant for '58 -'62 drums. The shoe spring clips install perfectly with the old shoes. I only see one part number for the spring clips (41835-58). Is it possible I have the older side plate? I've never had the 58-62 and the 63-72 plates side-by-side to compare so I don't know what the differences are. The wheel cylinder fits perfectly and everything else seems to be in order. What am I missing about these clips?

Jim

[panhead_kicker]

You may want to post pics of your parts.
Heres a pic of 69 side plate and shoes
***Edit*** This is NOT a 69, rather a 64... sorry for the confusion.

69_rear_brake.JPG

[Mongrel505558]

Looks exactly like what I have. My plate has Bendix and 300790 stamped of the outside. No markings on inside, at least visible with shoes installed. I've attached a picture of the rear brake assemble (minus the clips) and also a comparison between the widths of the new (installed) and old shoes.

[RooDog]

Jim....
there are a lot of different parts used during the years of production:
3 different, maybe even 4, drums...
2 different backing plates.
2 different retaining spring clips.
3 shoes.
even 2 different shoe return springs.

And all this is just what I could find in the 1958-68 parts man. I have no idea what else may have changed from 1969-72,
I have no idea what parts will interchange, and/or actually fit & work together without having the parts in hand for comparison.
Look in your V-Twin catalog for numbers and go to their web site for some good pictures of the variations. These may not be gospel, but may serve as a guide toward what the parts' differences may be....
Actual photographs, not just line drawings, and often measurements in the descriptions.....

https://www2.vtwinmfg.com/home

....12oo....

[RooDog]

Looks like mismatched year model parts.....

[panhead_kicker]

I disagree with how you have the top spring mounted to the two inner most shoe holes. Also set your adjusters to the least adjustment while installing the new shoes, then adjust afterwards. Those things may impact the fit of your clips. I think we need to see your clips mounted.

[Mongrel505558]

Looks like mismatched year model parts.....

Could be, but this is what I know:

Drum is 41400-67 used from 67 onward at least through 68 (according tp the 58-68 parts book). Plus it has the bearings in it to work with the mid-star hub.
Shoes are 41801-63 (63 on through 72)
Springs I'm not sure of. I haven't looked into those yet, but they work fine with no interference anywhere.
Shoe frames contact the wheel cylinder in the center.
The old shoes only contacted about half the width of the drum braking area.

[Mongrel505558]

I disagree with how you have the top spring mounted to the two inner most shoe holes. Also set your adjusters to the least adjustment while installing the new shoes, then adjust afterwards. Those things may impact the fit of your clips. I think we need to see your clips mounted.

Good point about the adjusters. As for the spring - the one I have doesn't have the long hook on one end like what you pictured. It won't reach the hole you used because the spring coil gets in the way. It may be the wrong spring. It's what came on the bike, but that's no guarantee it's correct.

[panhead_kicker]

...It may be the wrong spring. It's what came on the bike, but that's no guarantee it's correct.

I am certain the spring pictured on my plate is the correct 41836-63.
Your backing plate should look like below. The early plate is distinctly different.

ACMJ1354.JPG

TXCJ0423.JPG

[Mongrel505558]

Had to break away to take care of some household chores, but got it back together with the new shoes. My backing plate is nearly identical to what you pictured. It is definitely not distinctly different. Got the shoe spring clips on and everything buttoned up. Adjusted the brake shoes by turning each of the square adjusters until the corresponding shoe slowed the wheel and then backing off per the book. Took a test ride and the rear brake works great. Front is another story, but that's another project for another day. There's room for improvement there, but my expectations aren't too high. I definitely want to investigate the parts issue further, but had to get the wheel back on so I can move the bike around. Looked at my drum part number and it clearly is stamped 41409-67 - something not listed in my parts book. Anyway, thank you both for taking the time to help out.

Jim

[RUBONE]

Had to break away to take care of some household chores, but got it back together with the new shoes. My backing plate is nearly identical to what you pictured. It is definitely not distinctly different. Got the shoe spring clips on and everything buttoned up. Adjusted the brake shoes by turning each of the square adjusters until the corresponding shoe slowed the wheel and then backing off per the book. Took a test ride and the rear brake works great. Front is another story, but that's another project for another day. There's room for improvement there, but my expectations aren't too high. I definitely want to investigate the parts issue further, but had to get the wheel back on so I can move the bike around. Looked at my drum part number and it clearly is stamped 41409-67 - something not listed in my parts book. Anyway, thank you both for taking the time to help out.

Jim

The number in the drum is a casting number Jim, not a part number.

[Mongrel505558]

Had to break away to take care of some household chores, but got it back together with the new shoes. My backing plate is nearly identical to what you pictured. It is definitely not distinctly different. Got the shoe spring clips on and everything buttoned up. Adjusted the brake shoes by turning each of the square adjusters until the corresponding shoe slowed the wheel and then backing off per the book. Took a test ride and the rear brake works great. Front is another story, but that's another project for another day. There's room for improvement there, but my expectations aren't too high. I definitely want to investigate the parts issue further, but had to get the wheel back on so I can move the bike around. Looked at my drum part number and it clearly is stamped 41409-67 - something not listed in my parts book. Anyway, thank you both for taking the time to help out.

Jim

The number in the drum is a casting number Jim, not a part number.

I know I've run into that situation a bunch of times, but this was so close! 41409-67 instead of 41400-67.

[Andygears]

Panhead_kicker, you posted 2 different backing plates, the first was the mid star type and the empty plate is the star hub style. Look again, the axle hole is different, has a grease cup.

Andygears

[panhead_kicker]

Panhead_kicker, you posted 2 different backing plates, the first was the mid star type and the empty plate is the star hub style. Look again, the axle hole is different, has a grease cup.
Andygears

lol Now I've confused myself and had not noticed the cupped area missing...
So there are only two plates in the 61-76 parts catalog. Can we agree on the two pictures below?
41650-58 Side plate assembly 58-62,

41650-58.jpg

and 41650-63 Side plate assembly 63-72,

41650-63.jpg

So now I'm not sure what part number my bare plate below is...

Part_number.jpg

[Andygears]

Just now went to garage and checked my stuff. I have a 63-66 rear brake with star hub on my pan, I made most of the spacers, the stamping on the chrome is 30079. The brake stay is not right but works. I bought a used replacement and it’s stamped 32292 and the hole in it is almost an inch. Pictures:

C4ECBCB1-F745-4D74-A316-3FCD19294A75.jpeg

Now I am not sure I have the right replacement, or if the used one has had the hole hogged out from a mid star which has a smaller axle. What are the stamping numbers on the 2 you have?

Andygears