'68 Juice Brake Shoes

[RUBONE]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and speculate that since our beloved MoCo never throws anything away, and the absence of the later grease catching cup was, no doubt, determined to be of little, or no, consequence, they simply used up what ever backing plate presented itself at the time of assembly. Simply put, they used what ever was handy to assemble a motorcycle, and let the service personnel out in the field deal with it when necessary, eh?
....RooDog....

H-D did not "use stuff up" as you propose. And they never had very much inventory on hand at any one time, especially in the '60s when they were struggling to exist. They did however offer outdated parts to dealers at a discount to move inventory. I bought lots of closeout parts over the years from old dealers who purchased closeouts, and directly when I worked for a dealer . They also sold parts in lots to various sources like Dixie and Bill's as well as other large dealers when they were determined to be obsolete. And as various sources have shown, they occasionally scrapped large quantities of parts, ( a good tax write off). The landfills around Milwaukee are full of old iron....

[RooDog]

Robbie, I respect your knowledge,and insights, but I have my experiences and observations to go on.
New bikes were often not entirely new designs.
Transition years like 1947/48, 1965-66, hell, even the change over from Shovels to Evos crossed over and blended many parts before stabilizing, Sure, you are right about selling off surplus, but they still "used up" may items during the old to new cross over production periods. I too have worked at a dealership, and had my hands on enough HDs to have observed this to be true, and I stand by it....
....RooDog....

[nifty]

here's a set of standard size 41801-63. Narrow one is ~1.5 , wider is ~ 1.75. Both shoes are the same width of course, only the lining is different sized.

41801-63 BRAKE SHOE, with lining, rear, set/pair, standard size, (63-72) hydraulic shoes 1-3/4" wide (wider than 41801-58). “T” section, fabricated from sheet steel. As installed: OE rearmost shoe has lining narrower than its shoe, OE forward lining is full width of shoe, see OE SM 59-69 page 2G3. 41801-63 = V-Twin 23-0502.

Which is how shoes & linings are installed in Panhead-Kicker's 2 pics with shoes in-situ.

If you have repop shoes, or relined OE with both linings full width, a sander will fix (while wearing full OSHA PPE, of course)

IMO MoCo/Bendix were likely trying to reduce "grab"/ equalise the braking force of leading and trailing shoes, by changing the surface/contact area.
Maybe just equalising wear rate. (other manufacturers have used different lining material and length in same drum..."brake tuning")

Chamfering the end of linings also reduces tendency to grab.

Jim, appears to me you had narrow 58-62 shoes and upper spring, on 63-66 back plate & wheel cyl
Short lower spring is also different part# 63up

Logically, the cup should have been deleted when midstar hub & drum introduced for '67. Other than MoCo & Bendix, does anyone know for sure when cup actually deleted from hydraulic brake plate? Anyone got a relevant TSB?
IMO entirely possible it only occurred after MoCo noticed that sometimes midstar hub touched on cup, probably only when bearings got a little loose, so during production, cup quietly disappeared.
Therefore entirely possible bikes as late as 68 came with cup brake plate.
Purely speculative.

Nifty

Attached image copyright Harley-Davidson

[Mongrel505558]

...Panhead_Kicker, about how wide are the shoes for your '69?

here's a set of standard size 41801-63. Narrow one is ~1.5 , wider is ~ 1.75. Both shoes are the same width of course, only the lining is different sized.
IMG_6765.JPG

Thanks. That's exactly what I just installed. Previous shoes that came to me with the bike were about 1/2" narrower.

[Mongrel505558]

Just ordered a Bendix 322922 plate on eBay for 70 bucks. The paint is a little ratty, but it looks to be sound otherwise. The two shoe adjusters are still square - something that can't be said for the plate I have now. Also ordered a NOS OEM top spring with the correct long hook. The assembly I just put back together with the correct shoes/liners seems to work just fine. It will be interesting if there will be a noticeable difference with the new plate and spring. I'm not expecting much, if any, difference, but at least I'll have the correct parts.

[RUBONE]

I still have 8 point sockets for square head bolts that work great on brake adjusters. In the '70s I used lots of juice brakes on rigids until good disc set-ups became available.

[Hogey]

Those squares had me wondering why 10mm flat spanner

[Mongrel505558]

I use a 3/8" socket extension on the adjuster and a 3/8" open end or crescent wrench on the square and of the extension. Not perfect, but the best method to turn the adjusters without rounding them that I've used so far.

[Excalibur]

Like so...

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[Mongrel505558]

Like so...
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Exactly so.

[Hogey]

Thanks for the Tip

[Mongrel505558]

The 3/8" drive ratchet extension can be improved upon by grinding the face flush with the square "hole". Normally there's a small chamfer there. This will allow you to use the tool with even very worn adjusters as long as there's still a square shape to them at their bases (after the tab, where they emerge from the plate).

[RooDog]

The 3/8" drive ratchet extension can be improved upon by grinding the face flush with the square "hole". Normally there's a small chamfer there. This will allow you to use the tool with even very worn adjusters as long as there's still a square shape to them at their bases (after the tab, where they emerge from the plate).

One could even weld a straight bar handle, or a hex nut to the outboard end and do away with the Crescent wench, no?

[Mongrel505558]

The 3/8" drive ratchet extension can be improved upon by grinding the face flush with the square "hole". Normally there's a small chamfer there. This will allow you to use the tool with even very worn adjusters as long as there's still a square shape to them at their bases (after the tab, where they emerge from the plate).

One could even weld a straight bar handle, or a hex nut to the outboard end and do away with the Crescent wench, no?

Or drill a hole through the square end and insert a metal rod to make a T-handle like a tap handle. Might be tough to drill, but those of us without welding equipment must make do with what we can. Those adjusters are by design tough to turn (obviously why so many of them get rounded by people using the wrong tool), but not so tough that you need serious leverage. I used a small 3/8" open end wrench on the end of the extension the other day to adjust them and it wasn't too difficult, but I agree that a 1-piece tool would be less clumsy to use.

[Mongrel505558]

Got my correct Bendix 322922 plate in the mail just now. Paint's ratty and a bit of rust on it, but everything is still shaped like it's supposed to be. The adjusters work and are square enough. The anchor stud threads are perfect. Any suggestions for restoring this thing? Paint seems like it wouldn't have the durability and powder coating seems like it could present problems with the adjusters. That black line in the top right is not a crack on the plate in the top picture. It's an odd artifact in the picture and is not on the plate.