Looking for heads for Panhead motor build

[michigander52]

I have a new set of S&S Gen/Alt cases with 80" flywheels and wanting to build as a Panhead with shovelhead cylinders. The cam is a J grind Andrews. I was wanting to use STD Heads but it seems that they are no longer in business.
Just wondering what you all think would be a good set of heads for this motor.
Steve

[RooDog]

That is a Shovelhead cam cover.
How do you plan to oil the heads?
How about a sat of heads from $&$?
Their Pan heads are really trick, but their Shovels are direct replacements....
Wit stock displacement, compression, and a J grind cam, don't expect this to be a powerhouse motor.....

[michigander52]

That is a Shovelhead cam cover.
How do you plan to oil the heads?
How about a sat of heads from $&$?
Their Pan heads are really trick, but their Shovels are direct replacements....
Wit stock displacement, compression, and a J grind cam, don't expect this to be a powerhouse motor.....

RooDog, my original thought was to build a early shovelhead hence the cam cover. However I'm now leaning towards a Shovel/Pan.
I was hoping to use outside oiler head's, I don't have any experience with them but thought it wouldn't be an issue with the S&S cases.
I'll look into the S&S head's, thanks for the suggestion.
As to the power potential I was just hoping to have a solid workhorse 80" motor.
Steve

[RooDog]

OK, Steve, I follow you....
Again, how are you gonna feed oil to the heads? I don't know how your $&$ cases are fitted for head oiling, but you will require some outside source as your planned Shovel jugs have no internal oil feed passages.
I have a pair of $&$ Shovelheads on my '68. Direct bolt on using OE style rocker boxes and internals. I have roller rockers, which you wouldn't need with the .405" lift of the J cam....
....RD.....

[Mongrel505558]

V-Twin makes replica pan heads that are of decent quality. I'm currently running a pair, and there was a long thread on this subject some time ago. They may offer 63-65 outside oiler heads. My suggestion, from my experience, is to buy the bare heads and outfit them with valve and rocker gear yourself so you can have some control over the quality. The castings and seats are nice. Finding factory outside oiler heads that aren't too trashed will not be easy (or cheap).

[michigander52]

OK, Steve, I follow you....
Again, how are you gonna feed oil to the heads? I don't know how your $&$ cases are fitted for head oiling, but you will require some outside source as your planned Shovel jugs have no internal oil feed passages.
I have a pair of $&$ Shovelheads on my '68. Direct bolt on using OE style rocker boxes and internals. I have roller rockers, which you wouldn't need with the .405" lift of the J cam....
....RD.....

RooDog, if I'm understanding the installation instructions for the cases there is a provision for the outside oiler where the oil pressure switch would go in location C of the diagram.
One other thing I am unsure of is the valve lift difference of .405 for the shovel and .425 for the Pan. I understand that the rocker arm ratio is different but can the same cam be used on each of the engines/heads?
Steve

"C- Cylinder head oil supply passage/oil pressure switch hole.
Location: Hole C. See Pictures 3, 4, 5, & 6, page 5.
Hardware: 31-2021 oil line fitting, 50-8112 45° fitting, 31-2016 oil pressure switch assembly, or 50-8331 socket head pipe plug. See Line Drawing, items 27, 28, 30, 31.
Function: Supplies oil to cylinder heads in all shovelhead engines 1970 to 1984. Alternative source of oil supply to heads for knuckleheads and 1963–'65. Panheads accepts oil pressure switch in big twin engines 1984 to 1999.
Installation: 1970–'84 shovelhead, 1936–'7 knucklehead and 1963–'65 panhead with outside oiler heads.
1- Install fitting 31-2021 in hole C.
2- Connect oil line to crankcase fitting and to rocker boxes on a knucklehead, to cylinder heads on a 1963–'65 outside oiler panhead, or to rocker box on a shovelhead."

[michigander52]

V-Twin makes replica pan heads that are of decent quality. I'm currently running a pair, and there was a long thread on this subject some time ago. They may offer 63-65 outside oiler heads. My suggestion, from my experience, is to buy the bare heads and outfit them with valve and rocker gear yourself so you can have some control over the quality. The castings and seats are nice. Finding factory outside oiler heads that aren't too trashed will not be easy (or cheap).

Thanks for the tip Mongrel. I'll look into these also.
Steve

[RooDog]

Location "C" is correct for oiling the heads. You may have a location on the AM pump for a pressure switch which is where I would put it. it is just cause for frustration to try and run a gauge, a light switch is adequate.
Yes, the J cam does .425" with pan rockers. It is the bottom end's cam chest and gear train the determines which style of cam you need. I'm running a 1970-E77 cam in my '68 because I have a Sputhe nose cone cover, and a Crane Hi-4 iggy.
....RooDog....

[michigander52]

I've spent a few hours today looking for new Panhead cylinder heads and I guess hens teeth might be easier to find. V-Twin doesn't show any availability of bare heads or their Panhead top end kit for Shovelhead either so I'll resume the hunt and see what turns up. This may be a longer process than I thought so I may be concidering putting Shovelhead heads on while trying to track down decent Panhead heads.
Steve

[RooDog]

You do know that Shovels and Pans have different head bolt patterns? So the jugs & heads need to match. Except for a few AM Pan heads with Shovel intakes, that is, which either have Shovel bolt holes, or a dual pattern....

[michigander52]

You do know that Shovels and Pans have different head bolt patterns? So the jugs & heads need to match. Except for a few AM Pan heads with Shovel intakes, that is, which either have Shovel bolt holes, or a dual pattern....

I'm aware of the difference in bolt patterns. I was hoping to find the heads that have the shovel pattern. They are advertised on VTwin website but are listed as out of stock. I'll keep looking for a while but may just end up going with shovelheads until something turns up.
Steve

[Mongrel505558]

You do know that Shovels and Pans have different head bolt patterns? So the jugs & heads need to match. Except for a few AM Pan heads with Shovel intakes, that is, which either have Shovel bolt holes, or a dual pattern....

STD makes dual bolt-pattern pan heads that have the shovel intake, three-bolt exhaust ports, and can be used with either pan or shovel jugs. But after Lou T died the company briefly re-emerged and then seems to have gone dark. I have a pair, but I don't really want to part with them.

[michigander52]

You do know that Shovels and Pans have different head bolt patterns? So the jugs & heads need to match. Except for a few AM Pan heads with Shovel intakes, that is, which either have Shovel bolt holes, or a dual pattern....

STD makes dual bolt-pattern pan heads that have the shovel intake, three-bolt exhaust ports, and can be used with either pan or shovel jugs. But after Lou T died the company briefly re-emerged and then seems to have gone dark. I have a pair, but I don't really want to part with them.

When I first decided to put Panheads on these cases I was looking at the STD heads for the Shovel cylinders but due to procrastination and life getting in the way I didn't pull the trigger and now as you stated they are no longer available. I reached out to a couple of places and am waiting for them to follow up.
Retrocycle has these listed on their website: https://retrocycle.com/products/panhead ... 366c&_ss=r

I'll see what happens......
Steve

[dragstews]

VT 63-65 Pan heads with Shovel jug bolt pattern ...



These heads do have the Shovelhead combustion chambers and intake valves ..

VT No 10-1074 and are in stock ... $1,282.52
(Comes loaded with valves and springs, sorry, no bare heads are available)

295308148_582169643501339_4849142571354836874_n.jpg

Really are nice re-pops ...

[Mongrel505558]

Those V-Twin heads pictured look a lot like my STD heads, except the STD's have a 3-bolt exhaust port. Overall shape is similar - more squared off on the plug side. I'm running VT pan heads now, but with stock pan intake and exhaust ports. The VT heads seem to be of good quality, except I replaced those orange painted valve springs with Kibblewhite springs after an outer spring broke at about 50 miles. I was running an Andrews J-grind cam, which is a drop in substitution for stock and requires no mods to stock valvetrain. I replaced the J cam with an S&S version of the stock cam. Not quite as much zip, but still plenty. The bike is pretty light, with only the bare essentials to stop and go. I have about 2,000 miles on these heads since with no issues. My rocker arms need some TLC, but I've been using the same ones since I built the bike almost 30 years ago. These are aftermarket, but I'm not sure what brand. Do you have rocker arms and blocks, or are you buying those as well?