Help assemble kick starter

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nanonevol
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Help assemble kick starter

#1

Post by nanonevol »

I really wanted to figure this out on my own.
First, please confirm my assembly. Clymer's Shovelhead book has this diagram and explanation:
"Flat on the shaft should be at 12:00 and gear dowel at 7:00."
ImageImage
Nevermind that in their illustration, the flat looks like it's at 9:00, it seems to me it should be at @6:30.
This placed my kick lever straight up and the dowel at 7:00.
Image
This puts the dowel at rest at the stop with the lever straight up.
So far so good I hope.
However, when assembled, the kick lever stops abruptly at about 7:00 which is where the ramped plate on the kick gear should
be pushing the main shaft start gear back against the spring at the end of the stroke.
Image
At the straight up rest position, the other end of the ramp plate will push the gear back succesfully.

Hopefully, i have the assembly correct.

I thought maybe my clutch gear was not on the shaft far enough as the nut barely engages all threads.
Tried spacing out the cover with washers but this had no effect.
X-ray vision would help but failing that I'm turning to the forum. Thanks for reading.
Mongrel505558
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#2

Post by Mongrel505558 »

Your understanding of how it works is correct, and it sounds like you assembled it correctly. Don't worry about the Clymer's manual illustration. Your dowel is around 7 o'clock and the kicker arm stops in the vertical position (optimum condition, but not guaranteed - there are two sizes of stop plates made) so you're good as you can get here. Forget about spacing with washers. There are many thousands of kick-start Big Twins still on the road working fine as the factory designed them (no spacers). Something else must be going on that's limiting the gear engagement. A couple of things to consider here: 1) if you are using aftermarket kicker hardware, most of what's out there is total crap that isn't worth the space it takes up, and 2) the bushing in the sprung ratchet gear should have a loose fit on the mainshaft. It can't be allowed to get hung up in its travel or bad things will happen (to your knee). Sloppy is good here, at least to a reasonable point. The bushing is turning with the shaft except when kick-starting the bike, so a close tolerance is not necessary. I guess a third thing to consider is that, at least in my humble opinion, the Big Twin kick-start mechanism design wasn't the factory's finest hour. It's clunky and the fact that it wears faster than just about any other mechanism on the motorcycle says a lot.
Despite the shallow gear engagement, does the mechanism work without slipping or binding? If so, I would run it for as long as it lasts and save up for a Baker kicker gear kit (although I have even had a Baker gear break).

Jim
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#3

Post by RooDog »

On my old, mostly original kicker, 1950 Panny starter system I replaced only the bumper stop, the one piece kicker arm/shaft, and the kicker cover, all from Tedd's V-Twin. The ratcheting clutch on the main shaft remained untouched, and I re-installed the vintage OEM kicker gear, I even retained the worn cam plate. All in all this turned out to be a great combination of parts and made for a sweet kick starting experience with this old resto mod I have had in the family since 1967. No slippage, no over extended knee, just smooth action. I attribute it mostly to the new kicker cover, and the elimination of slop in the bushngs in that highly stressed mechanism. How long this will last is a mystery, but for now, all is quite OK.
My normal riders, two of 'em, are e-starting 5-speeds, so I don't have to live with the 1930's technology of Harley's kick start mechanism....
....RooDog....
FL54
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#4

Post by FL54 »

Just an observation, lose the Clymers and pick up a FSM and parts book.
nanonevol
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#5

Post by nanonevol »

Well I had the inspiration to put some black marker ink (really must buy some Dykem) on the ramped plate to see where it was engaging
and while futzing around with it it starting working!
Yeah, these are aftermarket parts and they just needed me to show them whose boss.
Thanks!
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#6

Post by RooDog »

FL54 wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:14 pm Just an observation, lose the Clymers and pick up a FSM and parts book.
Ah, Yes. The evil three sources of misinformation: Clymer, Chilton, and Haynes manuals.... Lose those publications, or use in the shop as oil pigs, and rely on the H-D Factory service, and parts manuals, the older and closer to the year models of concern the better, as the MoCo often deletes information pertinent to obsolete and vintage years....
....RooDog....
Mongrel505558
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#7

Post by Mongrel505558 »

RooDog wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:47 pm
FL54 wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:14 pm Just an observation, lose the Clymers and pick up a FSM and parts book.
Ah, Yes. The evil three sources of misinformation: Clymer, Chilton, and Haynes manuals.... Lose those publications, or use in the shop as oil pigs, and rely on the H-D Factory service, and parts manuals, the older and closer to the year models of concern the better, as the MoCo often deletes information pertinent to obsolete and vintage years....
....RooDog....
I agree, but I have to admit that I rebuilt a Norton Commando from the bare cases up with nothing other than a Haynes manual. For that bike that manual was very good. Maybe it had to do with the limited variations in the Norton line up compared with H-D. For Harley I use the factory manual and parts book, and if I still don't grock something I'll ask about it on this forum. Often I find the parts book is more helpful than the manual because of the exploded views.
RooDog
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#8

Post by RooDog »

Beware though, the illustrations in the parts man are sometimes generic, or altered for clarity so that some items do not go together as illustrated.
Case in point: The steering damper assembly on a Hydra Glide fork....
....RooDog....
nanonevol
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#9

Post by nanonevol »

The worst thing about those books is often the photo quality. Terrible!
Mongrel505558
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#10

Post by Mongrel505558 »

Is that a crack in the kicker gear?
nanonevol
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Re: Help assemble kick starter

#11

Post by nanonevol »

Ha! It sure looks like it!
You made me run out to the shop to check but whatever that is is gone. :)
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