Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

panama86
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#31

Post by panama86 »

I do actually have a stock hub here with some slightly worn bearings. The wobble is noticeable by hand, might be a better running fit, the only problem is it had some bent fingers. I did a bit of research on technique to straighten the fingers but couldn't find anything. Anyone had to do that? I'd rather use the stock than this 5 finger POS.

Would you believe it, yesterday tightening up my trans base nuts after messing with the clutch/aligning belt, 25 ft/lbs with my good deflecting beam torque wrench pulled the sucker right out of the bottom of the case. Must have been ready to go. Bout to heli-coil it now. Can't fricken win with this thing.
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#32

Post by RooDog »

Andygears wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:29 am All that sloppiness and “Jingle” from loose bearings tend to shake the clutch plates loose by the next drum rotation. Even lower end bearing rollers are not fitted so tight as to drag (plug fit). Running clearance is needed. Agreed Roo Dog, OEM setup usually works best or a sealed bearing aftermarket.

Andygears
That hub, as pictured, is an over the counter Genuine Harley-Davidson Replacement Part, i purchased in the late 1970s, and has served me well ever since. Ran it with Barnett Kevlar discs with both a mouse trap and a late 1980's ball & ramp 5-speed setup, and it worked really well for me. Next, I'm gonna try it with a Karata primary belt, and see how that works..... I also have a Barnett Scorpion clutch on deck with the seal ball bearing hub to try again also. The Scorpion would not hold my 100 inch Evo street engine, but a Rivera Primo does just fine in that app.....
....RooDog....
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#33

Post by Lowbikemike »

Don't try to straighten the hub studs, just replace them. Easy job to do.

37583-41 for the long studs.

37585-41 for the shorts
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#34

Post by RooDog »

Just a question as I have never had to do this, but what sort of puller is good with a 5 stud clutch hub, or even the dreaded 10 stud hub?
....RooDog....
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#35

Post by RUBONE »

RooDog wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:46 pm Just a question as I have never had to do this, but what sort of puller is good with a 5 stud clutch hub, or even the dreaded 10 stud hub?
....RooDog....
Most current aftermarket knock-offs of the factory puller have the extra holes in them.
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#36

Post by 59Panman »

RooDog wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:48 pm How about good ol' fashioned stock parts?

DSC03028.JPGDSC03027.JPG

The whole "tamer" fiasco is to make up for an out alignment primary drive, complicated when one installs a belt drive. The belts don't tolerate misalignment, whereas a chain can run with impunity.

....RooDog....
I forgot to add the belt alignment comment to my other post on belt tension. Good point Roodog.
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#37

Post by harley1958 »

im having the exact same problem on my shovel with the 8mm rivera belt drive ive tried everything. i cant get neutral at standstill with engine im running the big fix with the 52 roller bearings and ive heard bad things about them although ive had no problems. i put the problem down to the clutch shell is spinning to tight on the hub i have to click it in neutral while bike is slowly moving coming to a standstill .my hd mech says thats normal but im not sure as other shovel owners dont have this problem what i will be doing is going back to the stock bearings- cage so the shell spins more freely on the hub. as it is now when its in neutral with engine off you can spin the hub but can feel slight resistance and when you start it up in neutral the whole clutch spins whether clutch is disengaged or engaged. that shouldnt happen
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#38

Post by RooDog »

I had the same issue with the 52 long rollers. They seemed to be over-sized just enough to allow the shell and hub to move independently, but too tight to allow free movement. Do go back to the stock rollers and see how that works out for you. If you really want to keep the parts you are running you may want to hone out the clutch basket's race for added clearance. I am running an Andrews Scorpion Clutch with a large sealed ball bearing in my '68 FL and I can get neutral at a stop with the engine running. Goes into gear without a clunk.
....RooDog....
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#39

Post by RooDog »

How tight is that BDL belt? I have talked with BDL and they have three different sized front pulleys. Perhaps if that belt is too tight a smaller front pulley may help. It is better to be loose than too tight with a belt,front or rear....
....RooDog....
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#40

Post by harley1958 »

thanks roo dog. when i first fitted the belt drive back in 84 the shell had to be honed out to fit. maybe as you say it needs more. its no big issue as the clutch works fine. its just the neutral issue at standstill. im just used to clicking it in neutral coming to a stop. if i go back to the stock bearings im going to have to buy a new shell as im guessing it would be to oversized can i use the plastic retainer with the stock caged bearings ?
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#41

Post by harley1958 »

the belt is not too tight i run the adjustable roller idler
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#42

Post by RooDog »

harley1958 wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:40 pm thanks Roo Dog. when i first fitted the belt drive back in 84 the shell had to be honed out to fit. maybe as you say it needs more. its no big issue as the clutch works fine. its just the neutral issue at standstill. I'm just used to clicking it in neutral coming to a stop. if i go back to the stock bearings I'm going to have to buy a new shell as I'm guessing it would be too oversized can i use the plastic retainer with the stock caged bearings ?
I see no reason the plastic retained would not work with the OE style staggered rollers, but you would have to use your own judgement on that. I am out of the stock clutch business, but I do have one listed in the classified section. I would think the absolute best thing to do would be to get a BDL clutch and be done with vintage parts. Pay the price one time, and then ride free forever....
....RooDog....
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#43

Post by harley1958 »

thanks ill ask my hd mech on his thoughts. what do you think of the 5 stud hub ?. the last time my mech had my clutch apart to change the hub he put in a 5 instead of the 3 that was in there
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#44

Post by RooDog »

harley1958 wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:26 am thanks ill ask my hd mech on his thoughts. what do you think of the 5 stud hub ?. the last time my mech had my clutch apart to change the hub he put in a 5 instead of the 3 that was in there
You asked, so I'll give my opinion. First off, all new 5-stud hubs are aftermarket so one has that quality issue to contend with, unless it is a reconfigured OEM hub. Be weary of the heat treat for the roller race, and the accuracy of the tapered bore.
Next, other than for symmetrical appearance sake, with an open belt & clutch, there is no mechanical advantage to 5 studs, it is a scam. The OE 3 studs are geometrically correct and function flawlessly. So, you already have one, but for anybody thinking of making the change, save your money for an OEM 3-stud, or better yet, an aftermarket performance clutch with a sealed ball bearing hub. With these you can still use your outer shell either chain or belt, electric, or kick only. Personally, I am using both an Andrews Scorpion in my '68 FL, and a Rivera Primo Pro Clutch within the workings of my 100" Evo bagger.
That ball bearing hub runs true, spins freely, and is stable, that is, it won't walk outward on you causing the clutch drag, and lurch many stock style clutches exhibit when setting still in gear at a stop, engine running. That clutch drag is eliminated with the sealed hub. The MoCo realized this in 1985, but it still took them a few years to debug their design.
Those of y'all doing a restoration, even with a mousetrap, the upgrade to an AM clutch will be hidden within the covered primary outta sight to nose pickers & tire kickers as being "not correct' but you'll reap the benefits whenever riding that machine.
Another advantage of these AM clutches is not having to readjust the spring pressure each time you have the primary apart either DIY or farmed out service will save time & money in the long run.... And we all would like to keep our bikes running forever, no?
....RooDog....
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Re: Hard shifting, clutch hub spinning with clutch disengaged in neutral

#45

Post by harley1958 »

thanks again roo dog with the clutch in neutral and engaged should there be any resistance-drag when spinning the hub by hand with engine off
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