Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

1 minute around the block oil starvation

Lubrication System (oil feed pump and scavenger pump, reservoir, filter, and lines)
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Seadweller13
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Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#1

Post by Seadweller13 »

Hello new member, inexperienced and enthusiastic. Recently had work finished my ‘57FL all stock and original apart from the paint. Had an oil isolation quarter turn valve fitted in the oil feed line right after the oil tank. Valve is of the right bore to not restrict the flow and prevent sumping being closed when I leave the bike sitting for a long time (work for offshore oil so away a lot) what I didn’t realize is that I need to open that valve night before the ride for the oil to flow to the pump displace the air so the pump can engage the flow properly.
Just before leaving it for another long sleep I fired it up right after opening the oil isolation valve and went for a minute ride around the block. The oil light came on and I returned to the garage. No strange noises, bit of smoke but I expected that after sitting for a month before. Had to leave for another trip same afternoon and now offshore working and worrying if I’ve done any damage by running it around the block without proper oil pressure or flow. Any opinions? I can see an amazing amount of experience here any opinions would be much appreciated. Thanks gents! :cry:
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#2

Post by awander »

You're probably fine.
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#3

Post by Gotnoclass »

My guess you had some air trapped in there. Perhaps causing a vapor lock to momentarily trip the oil switch
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#4

Post by Seadweller13 »

Gotnoclass, you’re very right, but also the same air lock stopped the flow I think. Guess I won’t be any smarter until I start and run the bike again. Stuck away from the scoot now I was just looking for any reassurance and opinion from you gents. Thanks for input so far!
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#5

Post by awander »

Pans are hard to kill
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#6

Post by RooDog »

Assuming stock configuration, take a look at the way your oil feed line runs. From the rear of the tank it goes below the tranny and into the very lowest point of the oil pump. The check valve is a good two inches above that line and the pumping gears. Oil does not flow uphill. There is no way the pump can lose its prime, nor can air enter, unless there is something really wrong. With your valve open the indicator light should go out as soon as that engine fires.
I have also used a manual shut-off valve to prevent sumping, and also forgot to open it and rode the machine a short distance with no ill effects, but if your light does not go out with the valve open you best start looking for the problem.
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#7

Post by nmaineron »

Roo, you give good sound advice and though oil will not flow up hill it will flow to seek it's level. That's why we have a sump issue, gravity is forcing the oil to flow to the pump and the valve being lower than the level in the tank allows the oil to flow by it if it has a sealing issue.
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#8

Post by RooDog »

My point, though, is that the pump will not lose its prime wheather the added cutoff valve is open or closed. I understand sumping, and it can eventually drain the tank so that is why one should never add oil to a cold engine, running it long enough to scavenge the bottom end and then checking the dip stick. PS: Do Not over fill the tank beyond the FULL mark. One way around sumping and puking was solved on later Evos with head breathers. I had the puking prob with an aftermarket Evo that had both traditional bottom venting, and head venting, and my added cut off valve too. This wasn't my first rodeo. I kept forgetting to work the valve so it would either puke or red light on me. I solved this by closing off the bottom breather vent, and using the head breathers only. I tried a time or two to reseat the check valve on the Jim's pump on that Evo to no avail, so the head breathers were the cure for the symptom and not for the cause. I still have to warm the engine to refill the tank, but I can live with that. Of course, none of this applies to a Panhead, but it is still food for thought.
So if the bike pukes on startup, sumpin' ain't right.....
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#9

Post by Seadweller13 »

Thank you very much gentlemen for your input. Much appreciated. Anyone has anything else to reassure me please do. I will keep you posted on how’s the ol Pan running once back home from sea in January!

I’m glad to hear the pump can’t lose it’s prime even if the shutoff valve was closed for a month. The expert that last worked on the bike told me to open the shutoff at least 12 hours before using the bike as for the oil to flow and displace the air that might be in the gears of the pump.
That was after I took it for a spin right after opening the valve. He also said never to close that valve when Uk using the bike regularly only when leaving it for a long time sleeping. Than open it a day before I intend to ride it.

Hope I didn’t do the ol’ girl any damage!

Thanks again!
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#10

Post by 59Panman »

Seadweller13,

My external oil filter mount broke on a ride which caused the oil return line at the oil bag to wobble loose. I did'nt notice the oil light for about a 1/2 mile. I ran my bike out of oil. I did not hear or experience any noises. I put the line back on, filled it with oil and drove it home. All is ok. I asked the same questions on the forum when my experience occurred.

You should be ok.
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#11

Post by panhead »

59Panman
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#12

Post by 59Panman »

panhead,

I would have looked up that post of mine but am typing with 1 hand, my non-dominent hand. I tore the distal tendal off my right forearm. Had surgery to repair it. Thx for posting my post.
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#13

Post by Seadweller13 »

Thanks again gentlemen! More opinions welcome 😃
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Re: Lubricantion/around the block oil starvation

#14

Post by Frankenstein »

I've put a ball valve on several of my bikes now, and forgotten it a couple of times too. You're not going to hurt the engine going short distances with the valve off. In one instance, The light went off at first, started down the road, then it came on. Turned on the valve, went a couple of miles, stayed on. Stopped engine, let it set a minute of two, and refired, light went right out, so I'm presuming some sort of air lock occured. This was a sporty pump, which have a rep for oil cavitation anyway.
These engines can survive on small amounts of oil. Had the supply key fail on my Hybrid special years ago, being the stubborn young man I was, I rode it 10 miles home. No apparent long term damage beyond burning out the oil control rings. Twenty some years ago, still running the same bearings.
I think the overnight wait after turning on the oil is excessive. Turn on the oil and gas, and start it. That's my regimen, and it works fine. As others have said, the pump gears are below oil tank level, after first prime, they should be good to go any time.
DD
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