Auto advance timer ??

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Paysonpan
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Auto advance timer ??

#1

Post by Paysonpan »

55FL with original fly wheels and timing mark. Stock 1965 auto advance timer in excellent shape. I know about manual advancing the lobe when setting timing but not sure about location of the timing mark on fly wheel
When setting timing do I center the mark in the crankcase hole as with a manual advance timer? or is positioned differently?
I am having difficulty properly time the bike I do hope I have been clear in my description.
Thanks for all of the knowledge you experts impart
RUBONE
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#2

Post by RUBONE »

The timing mark on the flywheel is a full advance mark. No need to do anything other than hold the timer ad full advance.
Frankenstein
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#3

Post by Frankenstein »

What Rubone said.
Having said that, I had a bad personal experience with a '65 timer, to whit, it would not accurately advance and retard, leading to difficult starting and poor running. HD changed that timer to a better design the following year I believe. I hope yours is a good one. One other note, I have found it easier to set timing statically, with the points opening at about TDC. Attempt starting, if it starts easily, try just another degree or two of advance, try starting again. If it starts harder or kicks back, back timing back down a degree or two. In other words, instead of tuning for the exact precise setting at full advance, go for the best starting, which for me, is far more important than the last available ounce of horsepower. The amount of advance will be close or not far off what the book call for anyway with this method.
Just something to think about. To me, my knee isn't getting any younger, and the fewer kicks the better. :D
Here's a demo of bikes tuned in this manner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcG_x3cVOp8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1rpcSOIqWs

DD
The Flathead is on ebay now, if you're interested.
The panshovel I sold last year.
RUBONE
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#4

Post by RUBONE »

The biggest problem with '65 timers is the slotted head. It is nearly impossible to keep the head located correctly when it is tightened down after setting the timing causing a situation where the points opening differs dramatically on the front and rear cam. The head will ''walk" as the nuts are tightened and the head shifts. PIA
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#5

Post by Excalibur »

Paysonpan wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:05 am 55FL
When setting timing do I center the mark in the crankcase hole as with a manual advance timer? or is positioned differently?
Full advance mark in the right side of hole as per manual:
Image
You may choose to run a bit less advance if your fuel is poor octane and/or compression is high.. Basically reduce timing if it's pinking.
Paysonpan
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#6

Post by Paysonpan »

Thanks for the prompt replies and excellent advice. The 65 timer came with the basket case that has now become a motorcycle.
My engine builder felt the 65 timer was in good shape and advised using it. So far with start up and a few 5 minute runs it has been difficult to get here running good. As Rubone states a PIA. If i continue to have problems I will seek out a stock manual advance timer and be done with it as I have experience with the ease of using the old reliable device on my past bikes
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#7

Post by Frankenstein »

The later stock units are good and reliable, but nothing wrong with going back to the tried and true :D
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#8

Post by foundationapps »

Payson Pan,,

I have a 48 that I bought with an auto adv. I messed with the timing for a year and a half. In a box with some of the original parts was the old manual circuit breaker. Took the opportunity last year to go to the manual unit. After fiddle farting around with it for 2 days, I figured it out.

Manual circuit breaker has been perfect for 6000 miles. Filed the points and recapped one time. I don’t know if troop units are as good. If they are I’d use one.

Respectfully
TOBPITBULLS
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#9

Post by TOBPITBULLS »

Set mark dead center in timing hole.
Set distributor correctly as you state you know how to do and that’s it... be sure using right plugs and that they are burning correctly and burning in uniform as well.
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#10

Post by awander »

So, which is it? Set the mark in the center of timing hole, or at the right side?
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#11

Post by TOBPITBULLS »

I have a 1959 FL mine works perfect set up dead center same distributor no problems.
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#12

Post by VPH-D »

I have a 51 FL with a 65 timer, and a 57 FL with the 66-69 timer. Both of these bikes came to me as semi basket cases with the wrong timer, but start and run just fine.
VPH-D
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#13

Post by RooDog »

First off:  Set your timing by what the Harley manual says, if you don't have a Factory Manual get one.  Throw out the Chilton, Clymer, and Haynes manuals, they lack correct detail, and have just enough misinformation to get you into trouble.
 
 I set my timing mark at the rear of the hole and static time all my Big Twins there....
The timing hole in the motor case is 10* wide so you may make adjustments to your timing with that bit of information.     RooDog
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#14

Post by Doc37W »

Just to be clear, the upright auto-advance timer points are set at .020". Spark plugs at .028"-.032". Doc
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Re: Auto advance timer ??

#15

Post by Excalibur »

The way I see it is like this:
Set timing to factory spec as a starting point. Road test to evaluate for pinging/pinking and if so, reduce timing in 1° increments till pinging stops. At the point where pinging ceases is the best place for timing to be for your particular engine and fuel. Setting the optimum timing is a balance/trade-off because too much advance risks ping/detonation (& engine damage) while retarding too much loses power.

In the era where the moco spec'd timing was when gasoline contained lead. Those days are gone for good. Lead provided more of a safety margin but these days it's even more critical to set timing accurately.... so it's at least not over advanced!!

When my engine was stripped for rebuild a couple of years ago, I went to the trouble of accurately checking timing marks with degree wheel using "positive stop piston" method. I was able to determine the marks were close though not 100% perfectly accurate. Not that it really mattered because I'd be retarding timing so it was just off pinking in any case. I also marked the rear cylinder BTDC mark so I could optionally strobe. The benefit of strobe timing is to see how wild and erratic the marks are (from worn bushes, etc).

My engine will support 35° BTDC full advance. At 36° it will start to pink. It is low compression on 91 octane. I made sure it was low by using tricks like thickest cylinder-barrel and head gaskets from the available pile. The piston crown and valve pockets were smoothed of sharp edges & casting marks and of course I chose a moderate compression ratio piston to begin win. I wanted to run regular 91 octane and not have to chase gas stations that sell 98.

HD changed timing marks a lot over the Pan/Shovel/Evo years. Any newbie could be forgiven for being confused. It's too important to employ guesswork! We've all seen pics of holed pistons... with bewildered owners wondering wtf happened.
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