low 6volt charge

[bangkokbob]

Hi all.
After some knowledge as to why I'm only getting 3.6 -4.2 volts from my standard 1964 FLH charging system.
Have searched the knowledge base and tried all the different checks.
Light stays on when engine running.
If cutout is manually operated a sound is heard from the generator but light remains on when released.
Generator has been overhauled and rechecked and putting out good amps.
Continuity of wires have been checked through to ignition switch.
F terminal has been flashed to battery.
F terminal has been grounded whilst running.
Regulator has been replaced a few times.
Wire from ignition switch to in headlight terminal board has not been checked yet.
End cover on gennie has been removed.
Is there anything else that someone can suggest?
Regards, B.B.

[panheadrider1961]

bangkokbob is battery at full charge with meter reading 6.0 volts and in good condition charge stays up at least 8 hrs if not could have a shorted cell a generator replaces voltage used does not work like alternator which will put volts in to put battery back at voltage if low but you find that on 12 volt and up systems are you using point type regulator or electronic had electronic on my pan and it was lazy as they call it had to get rpms to about 2500 to see any input at 6.8 volts pulled put point type back on new one and just off idle you see meter going up 1500 at 7.2 volts again read up on battery has to be at full charge and cells in good condition to start with in knowledge base here and I use a wet battery , I had a gel battery to and it was slow about taking the charge pulled it everything is back to stock

[bangkokbob]

Thanks for reply PHR 1961.

Battery is wet standard type and showing 6 volt. I will trickle it up overnight tonight.
Points type regulator.
When cutout is forced to close there is a bearing load noise from genny.
I'm wondering if both field coils need to be polarised or do they both get done when genny batt and field is flashed on the regulator.

Thanks again B.B.

[Frankenstein]

Noise from generator when cutout points are closed might be a sign of reversed polarity.
Try this:
Remove all wires from the generator. Connect a 6 volt battery to the generator as follows: Plus battery to the armature terminal on the genny. Minus battery to the field terminal on the armature. Hold a second or two.
If you're using the Bike's battery, be sure all connections to the battery are removed first. Use only two temporary jumper wires to make the suggested connections!
This should flash the fields thoroughly and repolarize the generator in the proper direction.
Double check your connections to the regulator, and give it a try.
Good Luck.
DD

[Mark44]

Battery is wet standard type and showing 6 volt. I will trickle it up overnight tonight.

For a 12V battery (bear with me, I know yours is 6V.), a charge of 12.0 volts indicates the battery has a charge of 0%. Here's the table I use:
13 - 13.2 -- 100% charged
12.8 -- 75% "
12.5 -- 50% "
12.2 -- 25% "
12.0 -- 0% "

The corresponding numbers for a 6V battery would be
6.5 - 6.6 -- 100% charged
6.4 -- 75% "
6.25 -- 50% "
6.1 -- 25% "
6.0 -- 0% "

[bangkokbob]

Thanks for the replies.
Battery is 6.5 volt after trickle up o/night.
Got another battery that showed 6 volt and flashed up the genny.
Still the same result. Genny light stays on and when cut out is depressed manually ( engine running) ballsy sound from genny.
Regards B.B.

ps will change from the new Dixie reg to the old DR reg and see if it is the same.

[bangkokbob]

Changed to old DR reg. Same result.
Whilst running motor connected volt meter to batt terminal on reg. Volt only showed 6.09.
Depressed cutout manually and volt dropped to 5.60.
Regards, B.B.

[Mark44]

Hi all.
After some knowledge as to why I'm only getting 3.6 -4.2 volts from my standard 1964 FLH charging system.
Have searched the knowledge base and tried all the different checks.
Light stays on when engine running.
If cutout is manually operated a sound is heard from the generator but light remains on when released.

Can you describe the sound? I wouldn't think the generator would make a noise when the cutout is operated.

Generator has been overhauled and rechecked and putting out good amps.
Continuity of wires have been checked through to ignition switch.

How's the ignition switch? If the roller inside the switch is worn, it won't make good contact on the four nubs it nestles between. I've been noticing some dead spots on the ignition switches on my '46 WL and '48 Pan. When I get motivated I will take a look at the roller to see if there are worn spots. If so, I'm going to rotate the roller so that it makes good contact with the nubs on the switch plate.

F terminal has been flashed to battery.
F terminal has been grounded whilst running.
Regulator has been replaced a few times.
Wire from ignition switch to in headlight terminal board has not been checked yet.
End cover on gennie has been removed.
Is there anything else that someone can suggest?
Regards, B.B.

[bangkokbob]

Hi Mark.

Sound is a ballsy rumble that sounds like a load is being placed on the gennies ability to rotate.
Ignition is good , tight and original. No signs of any looseness and wiring connectivity from point to point is good.
I may have to pull the genny again after I had it checked and told it was good.
I don't think 3 regulators could all display the same sympton.

Regards, B.B.

[bangkokbob]

Furthermore from genny repairer that I collected last Friday on his repair.

Said that the regulator cutout was no good. It had flung a lot of solder off the end of the armature in the process.
He had resoldered armature -with extra solder.
Tested it on reassembling and it was good.

Regards B.B.

[Doc37W]

I know you said the generator had been repaired, did you or your repair guy try to motor it before you installed it? I was told at the Service School, it helps to magnetise the poles, allowing it to create energy easier on start-up. It also shows if the repairs were done correctly if it will motor easily. To motor a generator; With the generator REMOVED from the bike, using a 10 amp battery charger, attach the PLUS lead to the 'A' terminal. Attach a wire (I use a 10" long, 14 guage wire with alligator clips on both ends) from the 'F' terminal to the frame thru bolt (or end casting). Turning/plugging in the charger, attach the NEGATIVE lead to the 'F' terminal. If the generator (or repairs) is good, it will turn over (like an electric motor), running easily. If your charger has a meter on it, it should run at about 3-5 amps. If it is around 7-10 amps, you might want to look into new bearings and/or the armature brushes. Let it run for about 10 minutes to charge the poles. One other thing I would look at: the wires leading to the regulator from the gererator for shorts/bare spots. I've found many times those two wires were shorted to each other or grounded to the engine/frame, causing the armature to sling solder. Doc

[bangkokbob]

One other thing I would look at: the wires leading to the regulator from the gererator for shorts/bare spots. I've found many times those two wires were shorted to each other or grounded to the engine/frame, causing the armature to sling solder. Doc

Thanks Doc for this comment.
I'm sure this will be the problem.
For the last 12 months the gen light has been randomly coming on and off.
A few weeks ago on a 400 mile run the light came on and remained on.
I would suspect 1 of the wires has been shorting and now has finally made full contact.
I will investigate and post up result.
As disconnecting batt. lead on regulator ( motor running) makes no differance I suspect 1 or both the leads from generator
are shorting and displaying symptom of faulty reg. cutout.

Regards B.B.

[bangkokbob]

Hi all.

Well pulled the wires off genny to regulator. Removed from cloth insulation.
All good with wires. No sign of any damage.
May last for another 54 years.
All hooked up and same problem.
So this is proving a difficut one to solve.
Looks like the next move will be to pull genny.

Regards B.B.

[bangkokbob]

Well genny in a vice and hooked up as detailed by Doc.
Took a small push to get it started.
Motoring along happily with a 6 volt battery in an anti clockwise direction looking at the gear end.
I will let it run for 10 mins as stated.
Not sure if I'll get it back in today but I will post result when done.

Regards B.B.

[Frankenstein]

Usually the growling noise is the generator fighting rotation when power is forcibly applied by closing the cutout relay. Guess not this time. However, it still is an indication that the genny is absorbing power, applying a drag, if you will, to the motor, which we know is true because it's putting out a lower than battery voltage.
Not clear from your posts, when was the solder was thrown from the armature and repaired. Just now, or back when it was repaired and declared good? A genny that has thrown solder from the commutator is suspect to me. A partially shorted armature will make low voltage and still motor. And indeed, it might need a "little help" to start rotating. You're going to have to pull the genny and take it to a shop that can growl the armature. A growler is the final arbiter when it comes to testing an armature. I suspect that's the cause of your problem. Good luck
DD