Why did this 58 FL get parked?

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PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#211

Post by PanPal »

Happy New Year! Kinda glad the holidays are over now. The syringe worked like a champ bleeding the rear brake. Scrap, I needed that money for CP bolts so had to try the syringe. I’ve used those vacuum bleeders and they do work well. I had a short piece of clear tubing on the nipple and a small syringe. Filled the syringe 4 times. Between squirts, I made sure the air was out of the syringe and filled the clear tube so no air was in the tube and let any bubble go up to the plunger before squirting anther load in. It has a nice pedal now. The rear chain is cut to length with a new master link installed. The chain guard is bolted on now. I did some checking before adjusting up the clutch. I have three original clutch plates and they are much thicker than the plates I am running now. In the picture this aftermarket plate is a spare from the set I have in my 50. With aftermarket discs, taking away one disc and one steel would leave me with a short stack height overall. I’ll try it this way and remove them if it doesn’t work well. Getting the clutch working took a lot more time than I imagined. First, the clutch arm rubber on one of the inner primary tabs for the screws. Put another clutch arm I had on and it would not adjust back to get the 4 ¼ measurement due to hitting the bottom of the battery tray but the rod hole was straighter in line with the mousetrap. So I did tweaking to the bends. It now adjusts back far enough and doesn’t contact the primary tab. The next issue was mounting the front rod end on the shaft welded to the mousetrap with a snap ring groove on it. It wouldn’t allow the mousetrap to release no matter how I adjusted things. I bought the clutch rod end shoulder bolt and have it mounted like my other Pans have been and finally was able to adjust the clutch to work. It’s a little tighter pull than I like right now, but it’s getting better. Next I got my Big Ass wrench and cheater bar out. Put the flat bar between the front and clutch basket sprockets and tightened up the front sprocket nut. And now the outer primary cover is screwed on. One Saturday evening one of my older boys stayed over after having to much holiday free beer. As we talked he was curious how to Heli-coil. Well Hell, That’s just what I need to do to get the front fork tins mounted. He got a crash course in using the decimal equivalence chart, measuring with dial calipers, the difference between standard taps and Heli-coil taps. How to turn a plug tap into a bottom tap and how to use the kit to repair a stripped thread. The front and rear tins are screwed on tight without the gap problem I had fitting them before. The new shock bushings came in and have been installed. All that slop is gone now. I ended up buying the entire 58 rear fender mounting kit. All I used was the rear slotted oval heads and the front cad plated strut to frame bolts. I have 4 spare flat oval head screws leftover. Easykick, I struggle using Old Dudes site trying to find parts. It’s my own fault for now researching and acquiring the part numbers before looking, but thanks for the info on where to look. Time to Time up this Timer real quick I thought. I was going to try the way the book tells us one more time. I put a jumper wire on the battery ground to the frame. Then put a jumper wire on the positive wire and connected the other end to the battery positive. That jumper started smelling and getting worm quickly so I pulled the alligator clip off. Being electrically challenged and having this happen before, this is why I use jumper wires first. So there is a short in the system somewhere. I timed it the way I have in the past. Take off the timer wire from the coil. Attach my 6 volt light bulb with leads to the positive battery terminal and the other to the timer wire. I left the negative battery jumper on. I adjust the timer so the light goes off just as it reaches full advance and the points begin to open with the flywheel mark in the window. Last night I figured I would get out the 58 wire diagram and my meter and look for the offending short. With my meter set to Ohm’s from the positive wire to ground was dead short. Checked the print and decided to remove the wires from positive post on the ignition switch. Open circuit from the wire going up to the fork terminal board but shorted on the wire going back to the seat post terminal board. Took the regulator and coil off and located the terminal with the wire from the battery. 2 wires on this terminal so I disconnected these wires. Checked each wire to ground and the circuits were open. Checked the terminal bolt to ground this was open also. Looking inside the wire that goes to terminal 42 on this board had wire insulation coming off and was grounding to the wire connectors. I spliced in a new piece of short wire on this wire, and put on heat shrink tube on another wire and put everything back together. Tested from the positive wire to ground again and all seems better. I’m not sure what else I need to check but I’m about ready to attach the battery wires. I also worked out the muffler clamp on the rear support bracket and the exhaust system is installed and tightened up.
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RooDog
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#212

Post by RooDog »

The short stub welded to the Mouse Trap Bell Crank goes with an electric start aluminum primary set-up with the mid length clutch arm (across the top of the tranny), maintaining the correct leverage ratios. Once you get that bike up and riding you will surely need to make a few more adjustments, and/or swap out some internal plates/discs....
But that's part of the fun, is it not?
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#213

Post by PanPal »

Yea RooDog, I figured my adjustments won’t be done until a few things burnish in and get readjusted later. Nice to know about the mousetrap stud. I dug out another mousetrap I have and it has the same stud. A picture below of the original set of friction discs. This came out of my 59 when I first got it and you can see how the friction disc broke loose from the steel plate and the rivets carved a groove in the disc. The clutch was still working this way! I replaced these with the green Police discs from V twin if I remember correctly, and they were the same thickness as originals but they were glued on and I used my spring disc from this original set.
I strapped and hoisted up the 58 and lowered it to the floor so I can adjust the primary chain and tighten the transmission down. Then I will get out a long straight edge and align the back wheel with the front wheel and adjust the rear drive chain. The bike set on the side stand pretty well with flat tires when I got it. It was leaned over at a 45 degree angle when I set it on the floor now, so the side stand had to be bent a bit to get it sitting as pictured below. I also want to get my front brake cable routed behind the handlebars instead of out front as in the picture. I also just ordered the correct battery terminal screws and they come with felt discs. Do the felts fit on the shoulder of the screw? I never ran felt discs but have seen them offered.
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hplhd
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#214

Post by hplhd »

jeez John, I just wish mine will turn out half as nice.
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#215

Post by Lowbikemike »

Looking good!!

I think that rear brake hose fits a bit better if you turn the clip around and hang it off the bottom of swingarm and the hose gets routed up and around the lower backing plate pivot bolt. Gives the hose a bit more arc and not as sharp of bends......not that they are that sharp as is.

Enjoyed watching this come together.
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#216

Post by PanPal »

I'll try to flip the clip. Found out last night I have to reroute the steel line from the master cylinder to this brake tube also. It is now routed under the left hand footboard frame tab which makes it hard to install the nut and if the bottom of the bike should drag over a curb or anything, it could shear off the brake line. The primary chain is adjusted now and the transmission is bolted tight. The right footboard is secured and the side stand spring is installed. Front brake cable runs behind the bars now and I put a old piece of cable wrap around the front brake cable. Now I gotta get the bike up on the floor lift so I don't have to lay on the garage floor to get under this thing anymore
Rich, Lets see some pictures of your new project!
PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#217

Post by PanPal »

Shortcuts never pay off for me! I tried to pull the brake line out and around the top of the footboard tab then tuck it in between the inner primary and frame. It cleared, but when I applied the brake I got a drop of brake fluid on the floor. Hit the brake again and got another drop. So I took the whole primary apart again and removed the inner primary cover. Made up a new brake line from the brake switch to the rear brake hose and this time I copied the route from pictures when I took this apart and a picture I had of a 60 I got running a while back. The line should drop down after it goes over the tab on the frame and run along the side of the frame back to the swing arm mount casting. The inner primary was close to and at times rubbed on the ratchet top lever so I created some clearance before putting this back on and I made sure the brake line had clearance in the front and back of the inner primary. This is much better than it was the first time. I was able to pull and reassemble the clutch basket chain and front sprocket without loosening the transmission again. When the clutch was all put back together the primary chain is still tensioned properly. Since I had this apart, I tried 4 friction discs and 3 steels in the clutch as suggested. The nuts on the studs bottomed out before I could set the spring pressure to 31/32” so I had to add the additional steel plate and friction disk to get this working properly. The manual really doesn’t say what the stacked height of the clutch pack should be from what I could find in the shop manual I have. I had the front clutch rod mounted to the inside of the bell crank on the mousetrap and when I looked at more pictures of my old bike it was attached from the outside running very close to the spring on the mousetrap. I turned the bottom spring adjuster 90 degrees so the spring hooks on the spring line up with each other now and it all clears when activated. The clutch feels great now and returns over center when released. I installed the outer primary cover, the footboard and the derby cover. The shifter feels better now that it isn’t rubbing on the inner primary. Then I noticed the shifter rod pin on the ratchet cover lever didn’t have a cotter pin. After a bit of cursing and a beer, I was able to install a washer and put a cotter pin in and bend the pin without to many issues. So it took me a week to resolve a few issues and get the bike back where I was with assembly other than I need to bleed the rear brake again. I’ve searched for pictures of the police regulator wire route to the generator and I finally found one that shows it come over the top of the generator past the cylinders above the VIN number pad back to the seat post tube and up. I don’t see how it gets routed from behind the generator. The wire I removed appears very industrial looking with steel braided loom instead of asphalt loom. There is a tab crimped onto the end of the steel loom. I believe this is secured with a bolt somewhere on the regulator assembly, but I don’t know where and may just have to secure it so it looks the best it can. This steel loom can also help ground the regulator housing along with the ground strap that already grounds the housing due to the rubber mounted setup. The wires coming out of the braided loom don’t have any insulation on either end of the wires now. I was able to push the loom up the wire a bit and expose insulated portions of wire. I plan to solder new red and green wire extensions on to replace the bare wires and heat shrink the soldered sections of these wires so I can use this again. My battery terminal screws came in so I’m ready to attach my battery wires. I also purchased the correct bolts, springs, washers, and cotter pins for the rear inner primary mounts instead of trying to make one to replace what is missing. They arrived yesterday in the mail. I thought I took a picture of where I left off last night, but I guess not. Here is a couple pictures until I can add more tomorrow.
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RooDog
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#218

Post by RooDog »

I had problems with my 1950 Panny with a mousetrap and a SuperMax urethane clutch basket. One of the probs was separation when trying to release, so I used a 3.5 disc pack with three steels and found that I then ran out of stud screw thread, as you did. So I scored an extra thick steel plate at a swap meet made from two steels welded together. I placed it in first and then the fiber discs and three steels. It brought the stack up to where it needed to be to achieve the proper spring stud nut adjustment, and adequate separation to work well. Sometimes it takes a little re-engineering with so many miss-matched parts as I often use to get one up and running....
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PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#219

Post by PanPal »

The generator wires have been repaired and has been installed on the regulator side. I ended up attaching the tab on the loom to a hole in the regulator base opposite side from the terminals. I'm considering grounding the other end of the loom to the motor. I should get terminals soldered and have the generator end of the wire and generator light wire secured tonight.
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PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#220

Post by PanPal »

The generator to regulator wire is proving to be interesting to attach properly. Below are pictures of the 58 and 59 wire diagram and a Original police radio special regulator for sale now on e bay from Dale's parts. In the diagram radio special portion, they list item 49 and it is a fuse on the field wire. They also show both ends of the braided loom grounded. I have the tab bolted to the regulator base now in the same hole shown in the picture along with the fuse holder. It also pictures a tab on the other end that I do not have on my loom. I will need a fuse holder and fuse and a tab for the loom to wire it as shown. I also see they had this braided loom covered with asphalt loom which I will also do before soldering a tab to the other end.
What size fuse should this be?
What would this loom tab attach to on the generator side?
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PanPal
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#221

Post by PanPal »

Getting a little accomplished slowly. The generator to regulator wire is attached and has 1 extra tab soldered on. This wire now grounds from the regulator housing to the center case bolt above the VIN and again grounded to the generator housing. I never got a answer to what size fuse they would have used on the field wire, or why they would put a fuse on this wire. I installed a modern weather proof fuse holder on the positive battery terminal wire and tucked the fuse holder behind the battery so it is not visible. I picked up some items at a local swap meet a few weeks ago now. Bought a complete horn assembly that needed the rubber mount to the motor boss and a new vibration mount for the power pack. I made both and after a couple nights tracing wires and cleaning contacts this horn is installed. I did what I could to clean up the saddle bag bracket and put the luggage rack and bracket on using new CP bolts and spacers I recently purchased for this. The right hand side of this bracket needs a little tweaking but I have managed to align things enough to install the bag and remove it. Using a long straight piece of square tubing I now have the front and rear wheel in line so the straight edge contacts the front and rear of both tires and the rear chain is tensioned. Rear wheel axle and brake backing plate are now tight and the wheel spins free. The rear brake is bled and there is a nice firm pedal with no leaks. All bulb sockets have been cleaned and new bulbs are installed. I still need to get the speedometer light snapped into the housing. I picked up a good kicker peddle rubber, the one on the bike is splitting on one side. Found 4 axle covers and a oil pressure switch in one guys bins and had to have them. Bought a original clutch friction plate and the correct half plate to complete the original setup. I will install this, and I believe I need to remove the outer primary cover again to remove and install clutch discs. I’m pretty sure I can’t accomplish this by simply removing the derby cover. I also picked up a pair of RH-55 license plate brackets. I needed one to replace the later bracket with reflector that is installed now. I tried to flip over the clip on the rear brake hose and reroute it but it really looked bad. The way it is now I can get to the swivel nut on the backing plate better. I used a ¾” ridged pipe conduit bender and spent one evening straightening the handle bars. I removed the buddy seat to make it easier to work on wires and the battery connections. This needs to be off to make it easier to mount the gas tanks anyway. Finally last night, I reached the point I think I’m done soldering heat shrinking and installing asphalt loom. The front of the battery was sitting so low, the negative terminal screw would have contacted the oil tank when tightened. I made a ¼ thick rubber pad to raise the battery a bit. I was concerned I would start melting wires when I turned the ignition switch on, so I used a jumper wire to test the electrics before attaching the positive lead. I’ll be damned! All the lights came on and the horn works. The positive wire is now hooked up and the battery cover is back on. I believe I can finally put away all the wire, loom, terminals and tools. With a little rubbing compound and then some wax, the grunge on the gas tank paint is removed and this set of tanks looks like it was painted at the same time as the rest of the tins. I repainted the inside of the tank emblem and they are ready to install now. The emblem mounts on the gas tank appear to have the rivet inserts in the mounts. I’ve never seen the correct rivets, but I would like to use them and not use screws. Does anyone know where these rivets can be purchased? I see one set on e bay now, and the seller is very proud of his set. I have the gas tanks with me today at work. I plan to tumble the inside with vinegar, lime juice and salt and a handful of small hardware to clean surface rust and check for leaks. They are pretty clean inside, but could use a little cleaning. The right foot board didn’t look straight looking from the front of the bike it was pushed in at the rear enough that the buddy peg bracket on this side was almost touching the cam cover. I removed the rear mount and have it with me also to bend a little and try to get things lined up. I picked up 4 quarts of straight 60 weight oil for the motor and trans. I had added a quart I had left over to the oil tank weeks ago.
So my to do list is….
Clean gas tank
Assemble and align gas shut off
Mount tank emblems
Install speedometer light.
Service and install air filter
Get right foot board lined up.
Install saddle bags after a little more bracket adjusting
Gap and install plugs
Install Original clutch plates and half plate.
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hplhd
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#222

Post by hplhd »

john, it's looking great. nice work. the kicker peddle you scored, shouldn't it be a bicycle style one for a 58?
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#223

Post by PanPal »

Yes, the bicycle style is correct. This is what it had and the parts are Harley not aftermarket. This one feels nice and tight so I'm hoping I will break myself of the habit of reaching down when riding and folding the peddle back in.
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#224

Post by WillPhelps52 »

Wow! I feel like I owe you money. This thread is like reading an Adventure/Technical book. It's awesome!

Thanks for all the work you put into saving and old motorcycle AND documenting the process. I've learned a lot from you and the other posts.
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Re: Why did this 58 FL get parked?

#225

Post by PanPal »

The plan now is to be trying to start this bike Saturday evening. A buddy is coming over that loves coming over for the first start up. He has been over for the last 3 Panheads I’ve revived. The foot board bracket adjustment is done and the speedometer light is working now. The kicker rubber from the swap meet is installed now. The left saddlebags and guard are installed, but the right bag still needs some adjusting so the lid goes on easier. There is no space between the bracket and the top rear edge of the bag right now, so the lip on the lid won’t fit between the bracket and the bag at the moment. I will try to post some more pictures before the end of the week. I purchased HD 3-4 plugs that won’t be here until Saturday or Monday, so I also picked up some Autolite plugs. The gas tanks have been tumbling with vinegar, lime juice, a table spoon of salt and handfuls of small nuts, screws, and Misc hardware in a lathe on and off for the last 2 days. They are looking pretty good inside. A lot of residue has been removed It looks like a galvanized finish inside now. Made new cork gaskets for the back of the tank emblems and decided to go with small round head screws to attach the emblems. Don’t trust the used rivet inserts to keep them on the tanks. I hope to be assembling the parts on the gas tanks tonight. If time permits, I’ll put the original clutch plate set in. I plan the leave the air filter off until after I’ve started it. I need to install a bird cage in the horn I put on. It looks like formed screen. What keeps the screen from falling out?
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