60 FL with SS Oil Pump: Oil leaking UPDATE

[Andygears]

A Harley motor is a pump, pistons go up, create lower end vacumn and sucks oil through crank, plus a nice tight new SS pump will pump more oil than the 1960 pump. I repeat, your oil is not being "Pumped" from the motor, it fills up in that little compartment with the screen/ separator in the back of the right side gearcase, then when the level reaches the vent to the primary, it flows out. That level is about halfway up the oil pump. When the Pistons go down, the timed breather vents all the oil into the already half full gearcase and out the primary it comes. That compartment in the gearcase has a hole at the bottom that leads to the entry for the scavange/ return pump, the oil will never fill up in there if the return pump...pumps.

Andygears

[Andygears]

One more thing, before you pull things apart, post a couple pictures, please. One of us may be able to spot something easy.

Like what? Well the braided Stainless lines are notorious for twisting internally and closing off oil flow!

Pictures help us and we would like to help you.

Andygears

[docmel]

Andy: Not sure what your are saying: Are you saying the breather gear might not be installed (timed) correctly?

I don't run braided lines

Ill see if I cant get a pic posted soon

[docmel]

2017-07-26 18.02.27.jpg

2017-07-26 18.02.38.jpg

Here are pics of my oil pump.

[Andygears]

Ok Pictures... It looks like the silver clamp is on the return line, correct ? But there don't seem to have the same brass fitting that the feed line has, correct? I would start by getting a piece of 3/8 oil line then disconnect the return line from the motor, run the new line from the motor to a pan on the floor and see if it pumps out oil when you kick it. Look at that fitting into the elbow and make sure it's clear, and not in so deep as to block flow.

Easy check!

Andygears

[docmel]

Andy

Yep, the silver clamp is the return line

Interesting about the straight fittings that go into the elbow fittings. I have seen in the past that some straight fittings can bottom out in the elbows, occluding oil flow. Ill certianly check that

"I would start by getting a piece of 3/8 oil line then disconnect the return line from the motor, run the new line from the motor to a pan on the floor and see if it pumps out oil when you kick it": Ill do this first

Thanks for the patience folks. The forest is so thick at this point that I cant see the trees. Ill post back after I check both of the above

[docmel]

So yesterday I did the following

I first checked the straight oil line fittings (for vynil type oil lines) that screw into the elbow fittings at the top of the oil pump body. I did this first as I remember back when that sometimes the straight fittings would pretty much bottom out in the elbow fittings, restricting, or even cutting off, oil flow. Andy gears is the person that reminded me of that

Both straight fittings are almost bottoming out in the elbow fittings. So I machined them back some, they still fit tight, but not so close to bottom out

Yeah, I would've loved top crank it up, but I didn't have one thing: Yes, you guessed it, I didn't have any oil

So off to the autoparts store.........................

[docmel]

Sorry it took so long: I'm working allot of shifts lately.

Fired her up last night. RUns and idles like a champ.

Oil puked out the primary breather again, about 4 qts in 4 minutes. I cant even begin to figure this one out now. I did see oil returning in the oil bag, so I am getting a return

Any other suggestions is recommended. I in 30 yrs of wrenching have never encountered this

[Weedy]

just a thought. I am sure someone here may know better. if breather is timed wrong will this be result? a friend had a cam from s&s and it was made incorrectly and was off quite a bit. took quite awhile to find problem. did you replace breather and if so is it correct? juswt spitballing. good luck.

[Frankenstein]

I think that some oil returning to the tank is a clue. Seems to indicate that lines, etc are correctly hooked up. could still be a pinched or partially blocked return line, is there an oil filter in the line? Possible blockage in that?
On the breather, short of removing the cam cover, Try this. Go to Autozone and buy a vacuum/boost gauge, they've got one for about 15 bucks or so. Comes with some hose and fittings. Grab an extra crankcase timing plug and drill and tap so that you can screw the vacuum hose into the plug. Screw the plug into the timing hole in the crankcase and watch the gauge. You should see negative vacuum pulses at idle/slower speeds, and then it will tend to average out to zero or slightly negative as the rev's pick up. This will tell you if the breather is timed properly and working properly, because it's beginning to sound like the breather system could be at fault. I'm guessing this because oil does flow through the return system, but obviously not all returns that way, and oil return in HD's is dependent on proper breather function.
Just a guess, but worth a try, and you'll have a neat tool if nothing else when you get done.
I built one when tracing down leaks on my BTSV a couple of years ago. It's interesting to see the breather system at work, when it's working right.
DD

[docmel]

Funny about stating that the timing on the oil pump breather could be off. That's about the only issue that I beleive is left that I could check. I don't run an oil filter, and I am 100% sure there are no line or fitting blockages

I didn't install the cam, gears and breather. That was done on the bottom end rebuild. I'm going to remove the cam cover this weekend to check my timing mark alignments. I do appreciate the input ref the vacuum tool, but I beleive getting eyes on is the way I'll go, especially all the time, oil and $$ I have spent so far trying to track this down

[Andygears]

Well, I guess you've confirmed that the scavange pump is pumping, right? I would've been more comfortable if you pumped to a pan to actually see the volume but ok. Since you didn't assemble this, have you contacted the guy who did? Like before you pull his build apart? And a few posts ago, other guys were talking "Drilling the cases for S&S pump", was that done? Was it done right? I have heard, not sure where, about drilling the cases wrong and feeding the pressure oil directly into the breather passage. Pumping out 4 quarts in 4 minutes is a lot of oil! And why, if the return pump is pumping, is more oil being pushed out the breather than the return?

The old adage is when something's broke "What got fixed last?"

My two cents
Andygears

[docmel]

Contact with the guy that did the work: That was about 15 months ago, Shop does not remember the bottom end. Drilling the cases for the SS pump is recommended step as per the instructions. I couldnt tell you if it was done or not. I need to get eyes on on that breather timing

[Bigincher]

I think Andy probably nailed it, the hole may have been drilled too deep. I sincerely hope not, but what else would cause it to pump all the oil out the breather in a matter of minutes.

[Buddhahoodvatoloco]

You know you have to drill the case to run a S&S pump.