Lost all gears

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PanPal
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Lost all gears

#1

Post by PanPal »

Last week I exchanged bikes with my brother for a week long bike trip. He took my stock 59 FLH out for a spin and 2 miles in he couldn't shift into any gear and trailered my bike back to my house. He says there was no crunch or clunk just wouldn't shift into any gears. On initial inspection rolling the bike forward and backwards in the shop I could feel the transmission turning as though it was in gear but not turning the motor over. Pushing on the kicker the bike tried to roll forward. When I got it shifted into neutral and kicked the kicker just went down without turning the motor over. I noticed the mousetrap clutch was so tight I couldn't squeeze the hand lever. Didn't squeeze hard so I wouldn't snap the top of the mousetrap. I pulled the derby cover and backed out the center adjuster bolt on the clutch. It was a bit tight to back off, then turned it back in until it contacted the end of the pushrod. Now the mousetrap and clutch worked and felt normal except I have excessive play 3/4" in my clutch arm rod adjustment so it wont pull the mousetrap back over center. I thought I might have lost a clutch disk that could have wacked the clutch out. So last night I pulled the outer primary cover off and took my clutch apart. The plates and steels look normal other than needing a bit of scuffing up due to them being shinny or glazed. I'm not finding anything that would cause this to happen. Anyone ever have this happen or have an idea what else to check?
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Re: Lost all gears

#2

Post by Mark44 »

Since the clutch plates seem OK, I would pull the kicker cover and see if there's a problem with the throwout bearing. If something happened to it, that might explain the 3/4" play you're seeing.
PanPal
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Re: Lost all gears

#3

Post by PanPal »

Thanks Mark! I was thinking the same thing as I was typing. I better drain the trans and pull the kicker cover to inspect before there is a crunch.
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Re: Lost all gears

#4

Post by Bigincher »

I'll have to read it about seven more times, but my first thought was sheared clutch hub key. Not that uncommon.
Reason is, if you roll the bike back and forth and can tell the transmission is turning, but it's not turning the motor over, think about that...
Also, if the hub loosened off the shaft and a piece of the broken key wedged the hub outboard a little, wouldn't that tighten up your clutch action?
But don't listen to me, I'm just he guy that doesn't know what a KH whatzit washer is. No no, you go right ahead and pull your kicker apart (even though it sounds like it works okay) before doing a simple check of the clutch hub key.
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Re: Lost all gears

#5

Post by Buddhahoodvatoloco »

Uncanny, as I read your description of the challenge, first thing came to mind was the key. lo and behold, someone also thought the same.Let us know, what it was..
PanPal
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Re: Lost all gears

#6

Post by PanPal »

Im already to the hub on this side anyway. But if the hub moved outboard wouldnt the hand clutch go limp? I had to back the center adjuster out to release the tight hand lever.
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Re: Lost all gears

#7

Post by Bigincher »

PanPal wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:06 am Im already to the hub on this side anyway. But if the hub moved outboard wouldnt the hand clutch go limp? I had to back the center adjuster out to release the tight hand lever.
Well yah, I guess so. Hard to see from here, just spitting out what comes to mind, trying to help you figure it out. If there's a disconnect from tranny to motor, it has to be clutch related, seems like. It's late, I'm tired, all I can see is the tranny in gear, rolling the bike, and no resistance from the motor. And you said the kicker acts fine.
You'll get it figured out, keep digging. But I'd rather pull a clutch hub than try and line up the throwout bearing while putting the kicker cover on.
Let us know what you find.
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Re: Lost all gears

#8

Post by RUBONE »

The clutch adjustment often will attempt to weld the adjuster screw to the rod if not enough free play exists or if the rod tries to seize in the mainshaft bushing, or if a throwout bearing seizes. The need to adjust the clutch free play points that direction. If a hub key shears it will not allow the bike to move with the kicker as there would no longer be a mechanical connection between the engine and transmission. Keys rarely shear if the clutch has been assembled properly with a good taper and clean assembly.
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Re: Lost all gears

#9

Post by PanPal »

Well, I have the kicker cover off and clutch plates and steels out and still don't see anything obvious wrong. The early style throw out bearing looks and feels fine. The pushrod shows no sign of wear on the adjuster end. Below is a picture of the pushrod throw out bearing end and to me it looks fine but I don't have another one to compare it to. Does anything go on the groove on the pushrod pictured? Is it possible for the throw out bearing to rotate out of the slot for the fork if for some reason the plates hung up and possibly the clutch arm adjuster rod stuck in the arm for a moment? Maybe the plates just hung up on the hub pins? I picked up a new kicker cover gasket today. I figure I will clean up the clutch pins and inside of the clutch basket and try putting it back together. It sucks to do this and not know what happened. Any ideas on what else could have made this happen much appreciated.
clutch pushrod.jpg
kicker gears.jpg
clutch basket.jpg
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Re: Lost all gears

#10

Post by Weedy »

just curious to know what you found for a problem. hope it was not too catastrophic! lol
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Re: Lost all gears

#11

Post by 1962FLH »

check for broken springs in ratchet lid.

John
PanPal
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Re: Lost all gears

#12

Post by PanPal »

All I can do is guess what happened. I do know that prior to loosing the gears the hand clutch was getting a little more difficult to squeeze. I am thinking the clutch plates got hung up on the hub studs and somehow the pushrod loosened and the throw out bearing fell out of place or the throw out bearing spun out of the notch for the fork??? I cleaned the clutch basket up, deburred a few areas on the outside of the pushrod so it slide in and out very easily. The clutch plates were a bit shinny so I scuffed them up and the steels. Lightly greased the hub studs and put it back together. It all adjusted the way it should when I put it back together and the hand clutch operates very nice now. Never had to adjust the clutch rod to the mousetrap. The center adjusting bolt had no damage, both ends of the pushrod looked good and the throw out bearing was perfect. Just had to buy a new kicker cover gasket and new oil for the transmission. Last night was the first chance I had to check it out and the clutch is working better than ever. I couldn't tell I shifted into first where I would have had a clunk shifting before. Not sure if it was the clutch work or the recently installed OEM coil, but it started first kick with ignition on and rode like a dream last night. All four gears shifting smoothly. I'm chalking this one up to needing to do clutch maintenance more often then I have been. Now it's time to change the fork oil. I'm going to try 30W PJ1 gold series fork tuner oil and see how they act. Seems people put all kinds of different oil in their forks reading the knowledge base.
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Re: Lost all gears

#13

Post by OLD WUN »

Glad you got it solved and good info you gave back to all.
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Re: Lost all gears

#14

Post by Bigincher »

I use PJ1 fork oil, have for decades. I'm convinced that changing fork oil is the most neglected maintenance item on the list. Right up there with clutch plates. :wink:
PanPal
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Re: Lost all gears

#15

Post by PanPal »

:D Yea, Been thinking about the forks but actually bought the oil now. I'd say it's past time! Cant wait to see what comes out.
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