Timing adjustment?

All ignition related articles
Weston1955
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:19 am
Bikes: 1955 fle

Timing adjustment?

#1

Post by Weston1955 »

Hey fellas, so I have a question about timing. I recently had my motor fully rebuilt and got the bike back together. I now notice when I'm kicking it through that I'm getting compression through the carb when kicking it. It's my understanding that no air should be escape through the carb but rather through the pipes. Could this be a timing issue as well as valve adjustment? I set the timing to the advance mark in the flywheels so now I'm guessing it's a valve issue. I can't get the bike to start but every once in a while a little flame shoots out of the carb while kicking. Thanks a ton for any help
Excalibur
Senior Member
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:01 pm
Bikes: '61 Pan
'83 FXWG
'74 T150
'41 Indian, '29Norton
'25 HD
'13 JAP
'12 BSA,
'11&'12 NH
'08 Triumph
Location: NZ
Has thanked: 505 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Timing adjustment?

#2

Post by Excalibur »

Test compression.
Recheck valve adjustment.
Check timer isn't 180° out.
58flh
Former member
Senior Member
Posts: 3332
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:54 pm
Bikes: 1958flh 1969sporty,had a knuckle but sold back to original owner
Location: NEW JERSEY
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 277 times

Re: Timing adjustment?

#3

Post by 58flh »

I would do as EX. said///If you have comp. your good/otherwise the timing is out.The carb should INHALE.My guess would be a tight valve,Good Luck with her/(Did you use a reputable engine builder???)/& Were the timing gears /breather timed correctly?)Just some things that come to mind if you dont build-up comp. on the up/stroke.Did you install the timer or was it all ready to go?-----Respectfully---Richie
Weston1955
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:19 am
Bikes: 1955 fle

Re: Timing adjustment?

#4

Post by Weston1955 »

Thanks guys! I got up early to come out to the garage and start from scratch. I had Baisley hi-performance in Portland so the rebuild and the timer was set when I got the motor back. I'll give the valves an adjustment and go from there.
Mark44
Senior Member
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:24 am
Bikes: 1945 UL
1948-ish Pan
1991 FXLR
2007 FXDB Street Bob
Location: Snohomish, WA
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Timing adjustment?

#5

Post by Mark44 »

I agree with what Richie (58flh) said. If you are hearing air coming out the carburetor, one possibility is that the intake valves are adjusted too tight, which keeps them from closing all the way.
Weston1955
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:19 am
Bikes: 1955 fle

Re: Timing adjustment?

#6

Post by Weston1955 »

Still not any solution. I checked my timing 3 times and adjusted pushrods but can get it to fire. Checked intake manifold and and float level. Every 6 or six kicks it sputters and a flame shoots out the carb. I'm at a loss here
Mark44
Senior Member
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:24 am
Bikes: 1945 UL
1948-ish Pan
1991 FXLR
2007 FXDB Street Bob
Location: Snohomish, WA
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Timing adjustment?

#7

Post by Mark44 »

Weston1955 wrote:Still not any solution. I checked my timing 3 times and adjusted pushrods but can get it to fire.
Can or can't get it to fire?

How did you check your intake manifold? The most effective method is to apply about 10-12 psi of air pressure (carb off, and a plate with an air fitting bolted to the intake manifold).

Are you retarding the spark when you try to start the motor? A flame out the carb suggests that the timing is advanced so far that you're getting a spark before the intake valve is closed.
Mark44
Senior Member
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:24 am
Bikes: 1945 UL
1948-ish Pan
1991 FXLR
2007 FXDB Street Bob
Location: Snohomish, WA
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Timing adjustment?

#8

Post by Mark44 »

Weston1955 wrote: I set the timing to the advance mark in the flywheels so now I'm guessing it's a valve issue.
Setting the timing involves the mark on the flywheel, but it also involves the position of the fiber cam follower on the points and the mark on the points cam in the spark timer/circuit breaker. Are you following the procedure as described in the Service Manual? (Link to online Service Manual on this site - app.php/knowledgebase/category?id=16). Section 5.02 -- Electrical - Circuit Breaker -- describes the process.
Weston1955
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:19 am
Bikes: 1955 fle

Re: Timing adjustment?

#9

Post by Weston1955 »

Followed the procedure in the manual to a t . Advance mark on flywheel center of hole on compression stroke with the timing adjuster plate lined up in the mark of the base I then line up the fiber on the point to the mark on the lobe. After that I static Time it with a light to get it as close as I can to fire. Fully retard the timer to kick and it still happens. Trying to figure out now valve overlap. It seems to be escaping when the front intake is closing and exhaust is open somewhat as well. Those to valves should have no overlap right?
Mark44
Senior Member
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:24 am
Bikes: 1945 UL
1948-ish Pan
1991 FXLR
2007 FXDB Street Bob
Location: Snohomish, WA
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Timing adjustment?

#10

Post by Mark44 »

Weston1955 wrote:Followed the procedure in the manual to a t . Advance mark on flywheel center of hole on compression stroke with the timing adjuster plate lined up in the mark of the base I then line up the fiber on the point to the mark on the lobe.
Are you sure you're on the compression stroke for the front cylinder? It's a good idea to have both pushrod covers up on the front valves, so you can see that both valves are closed before the plug is about to fire. Sorry if all this is obvious to you, but you're pretty new and we don't know your level of expertise.
Also, the narrow lobe of the points cam is for the front cylinder timing, and the fatter lobe is for the rear. It sounds like you get this, as only the narrow lobe has the mark on it.

With the flywheel mark in the windows, and front cylinder on compression stroke, the points follower should be at a point somewhat clockwise of the high point on the timer cam and points will be closed. Your test lamp is connected to coil's rear terminal and ground. With ignition on, and timer advance control (left handlebar) fully advanced, the test light should be off. Rotate the timer plate counterclockwise until the points just start to ope, causing the test lamp to light. Most likely the points follower will still be a fair way away around (clockwise, looking down on the timer) from the mark on the points cam.
Weston1955 wrote: After that I static Time it with a light to get it as close as I can to fire. Fully retard the timer to kick and it still happens. Trying to figure out now valve overlap. It seems to be escaping when the front intake is closing and exhaust is open somewhat as well. Those to valves should have no overlap right?
With a stock cam, I don't think there's any overlap.
Most people don't fully retard the spark when starting. Usually about 2/3 retarded is plenty and halfway works for me.

Collapse the valve covers on the front cylinder. When the front piston is coming up to compression, both valves should be closed.
james
Senior Member
Posts: 826
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:33 pm
Bikes: 1952 FL
2020 Honda Super Cub
Location: Estero Florida
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: Timing adjustment?

#11

Post by james »

Since you are at a loss here, I would open the cam area and see if the cam and gears are in proper alignment. You said it was just rebuilt, rebuilders can make mistakes.
Jim M
Bigincher
Former member
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Bikes: 1941/59 EL
1952 FL
1977 FLH
1994 Fatboy
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Re: Timing adjustment?

#12

Post by Bigincher »

I've been following along, and Mark44 offers great advice.
My very first thought was valve overlap. What cam are you running? Stock, mild, or radical? Solid or hydraulic lifters?
Weston1955
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:19 am
Bikes: 1955 fle

Re: Timing adjustment?

#13

Post by Weston1955 »

I've got the Andrews I grind cam in it right now and I'll go through again in the morning and double check. Spent almost the entire day going over everything and trying to get it fired but it just won't go so I gave up for the evening. The weird thing is, it was running great and I was trying to get some break in miles on it and then suddenly it started running really rough and breaking up under load. First and second gear were fine but as soon as I shifter into third it would start to stumble. My first though was carb related so I took the linkert apart and checked my float level and re assembled and started from scratch with the mixture settings.
Weston1955
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:19 am
Bikes: 1955 fle

Re: Timing adjustment?

#14

Post by Weston1955 »

Bigincher wrote:I've been following along, and Mark44 offers great advice.
My very first thought was valve overlap. What cam are you running? Stock, mild, or radical? Solid or hydraulic lifters?
J-grind from Andrews with solid lifters are what's in it now.
Excalibur
Senior Member
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:01 pm
Bikes: '61 Pan
'83 FXWG
'74 T150
'41 Indian, '29Norton
'25 HD
'13 JAP
'12 BSA,
'11&'12 NH
'08 Triumph
Location: NZ
Has thanked: 505 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Timing adjustment?

#15

Post by Excalibur »

In that case... I'd do a fuel delivery test.
If the condenser is a crappy-no-brand type, I replace it with a good branded one. At the same time do a proper clean and set of the points.
Is the battery 100%?
What coil are you running? Is the bike 6v/12v?
Post Reply

Return to “Ignition”