Need help identifying my Panhead engine
-
- Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:48 pm
- Bikes: -63 Duo-Glide FL
- Location: Norway
Need help identifying my Panhead engine
Hi.
I'm I noob when it comes to Harleys, so I need some help identifying my Panhead engine.
The left engine case has the ID number identifying it as a -63 FLH, but there are several things that make me question that.
First, there is no external oil lines to the cylinder heads. The oil lines is internal in the cylinders. Which year models have the oil lines in the cylinders? And is it possible that someone has converted it to internal oil supply? If that is possible?
Second, there is no oil lines to the lifter blocks. My lifter blocks have the holes for oil pressure, but there is no matching holes in the block. Which year was the oil lines for the lifter blocks drilled? Can the oil lines be drilled? I want to convert the lifters to hydraulic, to get rid of the knocking sound from the valvetrain when the engine is hot. But without oil pressure to the lifters, the lifters would collapse I guess??
Also, the left flywheel "pin" where the primary drive sprocket is attached (or in my case the BDL belt drive sprocket) has a tapered/cone shape with only one "key"; there is no splines as I would expect?. Can the flywheel be from an knucklehead engine?
As You understand, the engine is a "mix and match" engine and makes it difficult to buy parts, so any help is much appreciated.
Sorry if similar question is asked before, but I have tried all sorts of search words and haven't had any luck.
Thanks.
Peer,
Norway
I'm I noob when it comes to Harleys, so I need some help identifying my Panhead engine.
The left engine case has the ID number identifying it as a -63 FLH, but there are several things that make me question that.
First, there is no external oil lines to the cylinder heads. The oil lines is internal in the cylinders. Which year models have the oil lines in the cylinders? And is it possible that someone has converted it to internal oil supply? If that is possible?
Second, there is no oil lines to the lifter blocks. My lifter blocks have the holes for oil pressure, but there is no matching holes in the block. Which year was the oil lines for the lifter blocks drilled? Can the oil lines be drilled? I want to convert the lifters to hydraulic, to get rid of the knocking sound from the valvetrain when the engine is hot. But without oil pressure to the lifters, the lifters would collapse I guess??
Also, the left flywheel "pin" where the primary drive sprocket is attached (or in my case the BDL belt drive sprocket) has a tapered/cone shape with only one "key"; there is no splines as I would expect?. Can the flywheel be from an knucklehead engine?
As You understand, the engine is a "mix and match" engine and makes it difficult to buy parts, so any help is much appreciated.
Sorry if similar question is asked before, but I have tried all sorts of search words and haven't had any luck.
Thanks.
Peer,
Norway
-
- Moderator
- Senior Member
- Posts: 8404
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am
- Bikes: Multiple H-D, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, BSA,...
- Has thanked: 481 times
- Been thanked: 2954 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
Hi Peer,
Welcome to the Forum.
Your engine sounds like a typical victim of the chopper craze. Many stolen re-stamped bikes ended up in Europe during the '80s and 90s, hopefully it wasn't a stolen one. It is most likely an earlier Panhead engine re-stamped with '63 numbers. The tapered crank was used from '48-'54 and will not fit in later cases. If it is a pre '53 engine it cannot be converted to hydraulic lifters.
What are the numbers on the bottom of the engine? And clear photographs of the engine will help enormously to identify it.
Robbie
Welcome to the Forum.
Your engine sounds like a typical victim of the chopper craze. Many stolen re-stamped bikes ended up in Europe during the '80s and 90s, hopefully it wasn't a stolen one. It is most likely an earlier Panhead engine re-stamped with '63 numbers. The tapered crank was used from '48-'54 and will not fit in later cases. If it is a pre '53 engine it cannot be converted to hydraulic lifters.
What are the numbers on the bottom of the engine? And clear photographs of the engine will help enormously to identify it.
Robbie
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2405
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:28 am
- Bikes: 1950Panhead
- Location: USA
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 366 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
Peer,
There are casting dates on cylinders and head, report numbers, letters we can decode.
Report belly numbers as Robbie requested, like 48-#####, 50-#####, 63-#####
There are casting dates on cylinders and head, report numbers, letters we can decode.
Report belly numbers as Robbie requested, like 48-#####, 50-#####, 63-#####
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1261
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:29 am
- Bikes: H-D
- Location: Western Australia
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 310 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
H-D Panhead cylinders had feed oil holes as original for 1948–62. Originally no feed oil holes for 1963–65 but sometimes cylinders have been converted. If 63–65 cylinders the left side may have a cast-in MC logo at the base indicating Motor Castings Company. Date codes will help with ID as Jerry mentioned.Peer wrote:The oil lines is internal in the cylinders. Which year models have the oil lines in the cylinders?
Also look on top of each case near the rear engine mounting bolt holes. Are 7s stamped there? If so could you post photos please because H-D used at least two types of 7s for early Panheads if the engine was originally 74ci. When originally 61ci, H-D stamped nothing there.
Eric
-
- Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:48 pm
- Bikes: -63 Duo-Glide FL
- Location: Norway
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
Thanks alot to all.
Well that makes it a bit clearer
The belly numbers was found after some laying on my back and scrubbing, but not typically HD number? 249-11015, same number on left and right case.
On the cylinders I cant find any numbers; they are smooth where I would expect a number. But it could be some aftermarket cylinders??
The cylinder heads is marked with STD, so aftermarked alu heads.
I cant really find a 7 either, but mayby on the right case. Altough you really have to want it to be a "7"
The engine is in the frame at the moment, but I'll try to post some pictures of it later.
Per
Well that makes it a bit clearer
The belly numbers was found after some laying on my back and scrubbing, but not typically HD number? 249-11015, same number on left and right case.
On the cylinders I cant find any numbers; they are smooth where I would expect a number. But it could be some aftermarket cylinders??
The cylinder heads is marked with STD, so aftermarked alu heads.
I cant really find a 7 either, but mayby on the right case. Altough you really have to want it to be a "7"
The engine is in the frame at the moment, but I'll try to post some pictures of it later.
Per
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2405
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:28 am
- Bikes: 1950Panhead
- Location: USA
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 366 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
249-11015 is a 49 engine, vin would have been near 49FL11015The belly numbers was found after some laying on my back and scrubbing, but not typically HD number? 249-11015, same number on left and right case.
-
- Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:48 pm
- Bikes: -63 Duo-Glide FL
- Location: Norway
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
Thanks for clearifying that.1950Panhead wrote:249-11015 is a 49 engine, vin would have been near 49FL11015The belly numbers was found after some laying on my back and scrubbing, but not typically HD number? 249-11015, same number on left and right case.
The number 2 in front of 49 made me think this is not a HD number, since I have read that all part numbers starts with the Year model...
-
- Site Admin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3291
- Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:00 pm
- Bikes: 1954 FL
- Location: Holland
- Has thanked: 108 times
- Been thanked: 488 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
Here are some examples of case numbers: https://www.hydra-glide.net/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=5I have read that all part numbers starts with the Year model
-
- Moderator
- Senior Member
- Posts: 8404
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am
- Bikes: Multiple H-D, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, BSA,...
- Has thanked: 481 times
- Been thanked: 2954 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
The number on the bottom of the cases was used to track the engine through production and is not a VIN or serial number so it follows a different format. the number you quote is consistent with 1949, which would explain the lack of oil passages, the tapered shaft, and other features. Sorry, but it isn't a '63.Thanks for clearifying that.
The number 2 in front of 49 made me think this is not a HD number, since I have read that all part numbers starts with the Year model...
T
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1261
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:29 am
- Bikes: H-D
- Location: Western Australia
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 310 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
Peer, 2 at the start of the BNs is a code number indicating OHV engine (61ci or 74ci) and as far as Panheads are concerned it was used for 1949 only. (Code 2 was also used for BNs of some Lightweight models in the 1950s.)
Cylinders could be AM but look closely at the base of the front cylinder. Some early H-D Pan front cylinders have no date code but have casting number 120-48 indented.
If there are no 7s on top of 1949 cases then the engine may have originally been 61ci. If so, it could have been a Model E, EL, ES, EP or ELP. (NB: S was recorded only on the paperwork; not stamped on the engine.)
Eric
Cylinders could be AM but look closely at the base of the front cylinder. Some early H-D Pan front cylinders have no date code but have casting number 120-48 indented.
If there are no 7s on top of 1949 cases then the engine may have originally been 61ci. If so, it could have been a Model E, EL, ES, EP or ELP. (NB: S was recorded only on the paperwork; not stamped on the engine.)
Eric
-
- Site sponsor
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1922
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:43 pm
- Bikes: 1969 FLF
1937 EL
1940 U - Location: san diego
- Has thanked: 1478 times
- Been thanked: 243 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
My experience has inferred that any belly number starting with "2" is a 61 cubic inch, measure the height of cylinders.
-
- Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:48 pm
- Bikes: -63 Duo-Glide FL
- Location: Norway
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
The hight of the cylinders is measured to about 135mm, which equals to about 5,32 inch..Buddhahoodvatoloco wrote:My experience has inferred that any belly number starting with "2" is a 61 cubic inch, measure the height of cylinders.
Its hard to measure more accurate with the engine in the frame, but is that number about right for a 61" or 74"??
Per
-
- Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:48 pm
- Bikes: -63 Duo-Glide FL
- Location: Norway
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
Can this be the number 7?Speeding Big Twin wrote: Also look on top of each case near the rear engine mounting bolt holes. Are 7s stamped there? If so could you post photos please because H-D used at least two types of 7s for early Panheads if the engine was originally 74ci. When originally 61ci, H-D stamped nothing there.
Eric
Sorry for the low quality picture..
Per
-
- Moderator
- Senior Member
- Posts: 8404
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am
- Bikes: Multiple H-D, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, BSA,...
- Has thanked: 481 times
- Been thanked: 2954 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
Those are aftermarket heads on that engine, also aftermarket timer and oil pump along with the definitely early cases. A true Frankenstein.
-
- Member
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:07 am
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 70 times
Re: Need help identifying my Panhead engine
I believe that timer to possibly be a Weird Engineering timer. I am the original designer of that timer and may be able to help you with info to make it work.