What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

Ongoing topics on interesting subjects, what did you do on/with your bike (or other things)?
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49bones
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What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#1

Post by 49bones »

There hasn't been a post for a while guys so thought id start this thread up.

There are some talented folk on here with some amazing knowledge.

What jobs have you done in the past to keep your Panhead running sweet, what problems have you encountered and diagnosed and whats been the best advice give to you.
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#2

Post by dean62 »

Ride her like the old lady she is, and when she whines I take care of the problem as quickly as possible. Good preventive
maintenance, and she stay's happy. Just like the, well you know.
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#3

Post by george48pan »

dean62 wrote:Ride her like the old lady she is, and when she whines I take care of the problem as quickly as possible. Good preventive
maintenance, and she stay's happy. Just like the, well you know.
I agree.

Ride her. She gets bitchy if you don't.
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#4

Post by VPH-D »

It helps to become very familiar with your machine[s]. When something out of the ordinary occurs, you'll notice it. My younger brother has had his 49 FL since 1975, and there is nothing he hasn't done to that bike. If he even suspects something is different, he investigates immediately.
VPH-D
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#5

Post by RUBONE »

My top tip is don't listen to all the tips folks give you. Read more, ask less..
49bones
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#6

Post by 49bones »

RUBONE wrote:My top tip is don't listen to all the tips folks give you. Read more, ask less..

Cheers
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#7

Post by Excalibur »

49bones wrote: What jobs have you done in the past to keep your Panhead running sweet, what problems have you encountered and diagnosed and whats been the best advice give to you.
When I got my Pan it was virtually unrideable. There was a number of issues compounding the situation. It was as though problems were heaped on top of problems. It would have been positively diabolical to ride any distance. One by one I groomed out the 55 years of accumulated bugs and I'm not done yet. There is wiring, brakes, tires and gearbox still to sort, just to name a few.

Some samples of items done,,
Proper flush out of oil tank. Installed magnetic drain plug.
Primary chain alignment was worth getting right.
Upgraded most/many of the nuts to nyloc.
Accurately checked timing marks and marked the rear cylinder BTDC point.
Fitted full time LED bulb to park light socket for safety reasons.
Flushed rear brake hydraulics and correctly adjusted shoes.
Full fastener tightness checkover. Surprising what you find loose.
Fork and trans oil change.
Fixed oil filter so oil actually goes through element now!
Remade oil return line. (Old line could have popped out at any time).
Remade rear brake line. (Old line had illegal compression fittings & was dangerous).
Fixed GEN & OIL lights. Essential to know basics are working.
Lightly greased speedo cable.
Fixed really dodgy front brake cable pivot/nipple. (Was ready to pull through YIKES!)
Repaired tank cracks and did a proper alignment so they weren't stressed when bolted up.
Renewed tired fuel hoses with proper reinforced fuel hose, all 3 incl tank balance ones with nice clips that don't mess up the hose.
Checked for adequate full delivery by measurement over 60sec.
Fixed gas cap breather .
This list could go on..

The task isn't finished though. It's an old bike and there are traps everywhere. Some of the spare parts are rubbish and some of the manual is redundant.
So yes, I can testify it is about knowing the machine and it is about routine maintence as the posters above have said.
This forum truly is a wealth of collective knowledge. We all benefit by it's members thoughtfulness.
Little Stan
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#8

Post by Little Stan »

49bones:

When I bought my '58 FL way back in 1974 it was a total piece of junk! One thing that wasn't working was the 58a 6 volt generator. The end bearing was gone and allowed the armature to fall into the fields tearing up everything!

About once a year I take my generator apart for cleaning, inspection and lubrication. Whether its a three brush 32e or the newest 65a that armature is spinning a bunch of rpm's! I never have sat down to figure out the ratio but its about 3 to 4 times faster than what the motor is turning. One more reason why the factory went to the cone motor in 1970.

When I go out of town I always carry a decent set of used generator brushes along with oil pump keys, extra lifters (including a brazed up solid), points, condenser, wire (electrical, baling plus a wadded up coat-hanger), a spare primary belt and an extra push-rod. I always carry a good set of tools plus two quarts of oil so I can be ready for a road side park rebuild.

-'lil stan
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#9

Post by Frankenstein »

Good advice on the genny, actual ratio is 1.61:1 overspeed on 13 tooth genny gear, 1.5:1 on the 14 tooth gear.
With just a little maintenance, Harley generators can be considered a reliable device. Especially if you're comparing them to the Lucas POS's I started out my motorcycle career with! :lol:
DL
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#10

Post by 58demon »

RUBONE wrote:My top tip is don't listen to all the tips folks give you. Read more, ask less..
and if you still don't know how have a great old school mechanic as best friend who just happens to own a shop! :lol:
49bones
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#11

Post by 49bones »

Excalibur wrote:
49bones wrote: What jobs have you done in the past to keep your Panhead running sweet, what problems have you encountered and diagnosed and whats been the best advice give to you.
When I got my Pan it was virtually unrideable. There was a number of issues compounding the situation. It was as though problems were heaped on top of problems. It would have been positively diabolical to ride any distance. One by one I groomed out the 55 years of accumulated bugs and I'm not done yet. There is wiring, brakes, tires and gearbox still to sort, just to name a few.

Some samples of items done,,
Proper flush out of oil tank. Installed magnetic drain plug.
Primary chain alignment was worth getting right.
Upgraded most/many of the nuts to nyloc.
Accurately checked timing marks and marked the rear cylinder BTDC point.
Fitted full time LED bulb to park light socket for safety reasons.
Flushed rear brake hydraulics and correctly adjusted shoes.
Full fastener tightness checkover. Surprising what you find loose.
Fork and trans oil change.
Fixed oil filter so oil actually goes through element now!
Remade oil return line. (Old line could have popped out at any time).
Remade rear brake line. (Old line had illegal compression fittings & was dangerous).
Fixed GEN & OIL lights. Essential to know basics are working.
Lightly greased speedo cable.
Fixed really dodgy front brake cable pivot/nipple. (Was ready to pull through YIKES!)
Repaired tank cracks and did a proper alignment so they weren't stressed when bolted up.
Renewed tired fuel hoses with proper reinforced fuel hose, all 3 incl tank balance ones with nice clips that don't mess up the hose.
Checked for adequate full delivery by measurement over 60sec.
Fixed gas cap breather .
This list could go on..

The task isn't finished though. It's an old bike and there are traps everywhere. Some of the spare parts are rubbish and some of the manual is redundant.
So yes, I can testify it is about knowing the machine and it is about routine maintence as the posters above have said.
This forum truly is a wealth of collective knowledge. We all benefit by it's members thoughtfulness.

This is ace. I always think about the new people to this site or panheads, just trying to get to learnt heir bike and the niggly bits they need to get right to get on the road safely and have a heap of fun. Thanks mate
49bones
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#12

Post by 49bones »

Little Stan wrote:49bones:

When I bought my '58 FL way back in 1974 it was a total piece of junk! One thing that wasn't working was the 58a 6 volt generator. The end bearing was gone and allowed the armature to fall into the fields tearing up everything!

About once a year I take my generator apart for cleaning, inspection and lubrication. Whether its a three brush 32e or the newest 65a that armature is spinning a bunch of rpm's! I never have sat down to figure out the ratio but its about 3 to 4 times faster than what the motor is turning. One more reason why the factory went to the cone motor in 1970.

When I go out of town I always carry a decent set of used generator brushes along with oil pump keys, extra lifters (including a brazed up solid), points, condenser, wire (electrical, baling plus a wadded up coat-hanger), a spare primary belt and an extra push-rod. I always carry a good set of tools plus two quarts of oil so I can be ready for a road side park rebuild.

-'lil stan

Hey stan you should be prepped for anything with that lot! I better get some bags on mine haha
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#13

Post by Little Stan »

Jimmi:

My old Panhead is the only thing I own that means anything, we've been through so much together but the two of almost always were able to limp back home. In 42 years of riding it I can count on one hand times that required a truck.

Story:

Back about 1990 I took off from Houston for the Colorado rockies and started to get into trouble somewhere near the Black Canyon of the Gunnison. Primary chain needed tightening so I loosened up the transmission and adjusted it back. Went to tighten up on the four studs but one of them wouldn't tighten! Stud was pulling out with a steady drip! Bought a couple quarts of 90w gear lube, topped it off every time I stopped but my troubles had only just begun! I had just gone thru the Eisenhower Tunnel and was headed downhill towards Denver when my speed started dropping as it wasn't pulling. I stopped thinking I must have lost my chain but it was still there. Got back on, dropped it into gear only to have the rear sprocket spin as all of the rivets had come out. A guy on a Gold Wing stopped, went into Idaho Springs and came back with a logging chain! We chained both bikes together which was flat dangerous! He towed me into Idaho Springs to a truck stop, pulled the back wheel and had the mechanic there weld the sprocket to the drum. After a stop in Amarillo for a new set of chains I made it home back to Texas.

Hardships become cherished memories!

-'lil stan
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#14

Post by 58flh »

For me it was always drilled in my head from a youngster /Frequent oil-changes & always go over the bike BEFORE you leave to go anywhere!/Have Points/cond./bailingwire/ductape/& a masterlink on the keyring.Then the basic tools to adj. primary & rear chains when gone for a few days.But the BEST ADVICE was getting my hands dirty & learning how to do everything yourself!/That came to me as a basket case at 16-yrs. old from my Dad./It was a 69 shortster.Also you cannot rule out PREVENTIVE MAINTAINANCE.-----Respectfully----Richie
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Re: What are your top tips for keeping your panhead happy

#15

Post by foundationapps »

58flh wrote:For me it was always drilled in my head from a youngster /Frequent oil-changes & always go over the bike BEFORE you leave to go anywhere!/Have Points/cond./bailingwire/ductape/& a masterlink on the keyring.Then the basic tools to adj. primary & rear chains when gone for a few days. But the BEST ADVICE was getting my hands dirty & learning how to do everything yourself!/That came to me as a basket case at 16-yrs. old from my Dad./It was a 69 shortster. Also you cannot rule out PREVENTIVE MAINTAINANCE.-----Respectfully----Richie
Agree with Richie (from my short experience point of view) 110%!! Mr. Richie has helped me out with some trouble shooting and absolutely sound guidance since I've owned this bike. It is now a single kicker at -8 degrees with 6 priming kicks, 2 shots of gas, full choke to half choke on start up.

I got a 48 Pan last year that was a perfect runner, but it had to sit for 5 years before I bought from the fella. Was NOT a basket case, but well built and well maintained until it was parked. Started on the 1st kick, and it went downhill from there (after one month of perfect riding). Not from bad maintenance, but from what happens to things over a 5 year stretch. I was provided the perfect learning opportunity. Lessons learned to date:

1. Wiring. This machine has Basic wiring. A single fuze at the battery. No generator light. Oil light functioned. Ignition switch took a crap 2 weeks into ownership. Small diameter wiring began arcing under the dash (heard stories about this stuff, was un nerving to see it happen on the way to work along the I-state at 70 mph. (Have electrical tape, Shoe-Goo, and many spare fuzes). Ignition switch replaced with a V-Twin Heavy Duty switch, still working 3000 miles later, so far so good. Lesson Learned: Checking grounding and insulation on everything. On an old bike, I'd keep the wiring simple. I use no turn signals, no relays, manual 3 way toggle switch for On / High / Low beam position. Oil Pressure light, but could be eliminated with a gauge). If you do a re-wire, map the entire system out. There are plenty examples of ad-hoc wiring diagrams. It's important you know YOUR bike's wiring. Carry 3' of Red, Blue, Green and Black wire if possible.

2. SCS: Sudden Crap-out Syndrome (my phrase). Out of the blue, the Pan would suddenly dome to a stop on the side of the road. This turned out to be the greatest challenge and source of lessons learned on this machine. I suspect it also applies to other Panheads based on the nature of questions guys ask, and the flow of info on the Knowledge Base, which is completely priceless!!! Use that resource and READ a lot. History: The bike would be running fine, no backfires, no hesitation, and it would come to a stop. When it happened, my first thought was electrical because of how suddenly it happened. Explanation:

a. Thought ignition at first. Checked gap, that was good, filed points to correct them. Bike has an auto advance which I knew nothing about at the time. My logic was that it ran just fine, until it crapped, so ignition was unlikely, UNLESS THE COIL TOOK A CRAP (which it didn't).

moving on...

b. Fuel supply. Though I didn't know at first, there are many aspects to fuel supply. My pea brain thought carburetor. It's a Bendix/Zenith, that was working perfectly. BUT. I decided it needed rebuilding, which it probably did. I did not know how to rebuild a carb, so I bought the shop books and read the internet. x3 re assemblies from 3 different suppliers, (and some hair pulling trying to figure out the float bowl gap (3/16" like the book says). Gas crapping out of the air filter is a good sign the float bowl is not gaped right. That took 3 weeks to figure it out. I used my lab surface at work to learn the art at night. :)

Besides carburetor, however, fuel problems means 3 other areas as I see it. Starting at the source.

1. Gas Tank. Make sure the dual tanks are cross vented at the top of the tank, under the dash. Make sure the gas caps are (one non-vented and the right side vented), and that the vented cap does vent properly. Lack of venting means low fuel flow as vaccum builds up and decreases fuel flow. Inside the tank fuel filter. Remove your petcock (fuel valve). Flush both tanks with gas to remove any crap and check the interior screen. Block of that means fuel failure as the float bowl fills to slow to supply the engine with gas. Recently mounted some 5-gallon tanks that had crud in them. I failed to sufficiently flush the tanks, resulting in a clogged screen. Side of the road crapout was sudden and without warning. I use a quick release valve between the two tank halves, so I was able to drain the gas out of the left tank, and pull the fuel valve on the side of the road, blow out the screen and petcock valving. Re-assembled and back on the road.

2. Between the gas tank and the carburetor. Two more opportunities for failure here. First, if you use one of the in line fuel filters, throw it away if you already have an in-tank screen. If you have no in-tank screen, the glass filters are nice to see the sediment buildup, so you can toss it or clean it as needed. Second, gas line. Use 5/16"fuel line and get a fuel valve with 5/16" fitting if you don't have one now. Have enough fuel hose so flow is not kinked with too sudden of a turn. Generally the carb height is well below the fuel valve height so that you can run hose with a nice easy curve to it. My sits 1/2" above the case between the jugs.

3. Carburetor. Frequently the 1st thought of fuel problems, not always the case. Get good at rebuilding, cleaning, removing and installing (especially regarding intake manifolds, more on that in a bit). If your bike seems to fuel starve, my process is: 1. Check in tank fuel strainer, 2. Check fuel line, 3. Remove air filter and check for fuel at the accelerator pump inlet. If there is no fuel at the accelerator pump inlet, you likely have a blockage or starvation issue, can be the float bowl also, you'll have to remove the carb and tear it apart. Get a 50.00 2 gallon air compressor and keep it handy. One of the best tools to have around for working on these. Rebuild your carb if you can if there is no fuel getting to the engine (evidence is dry plugs at the engine).

4. My personal favorite, and most likely the most UNDER CONSIDERED cause of bad performance, no staring, shut down, back fires and a plethora of hair pulling chaos...............
______________________________________________________________________________

THE DREADED INTAKE MANIFOLD LEAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry for the over dramatization, but in the last few months, nearly every time the engine would hesitate or act ignorant, it was due to intake manifolds leaking. My Pan has a Bendix Carb with an S&S intake manifold. I battled many times with carb rebuilds, monkeyed with timing, changed fuel lines and filters before I finally submitted to Ritchie's suggestion that I dig into the intake manifold. Because I'm a "strip away anything that can complicate the project" type thinker, getting to the manifold requires removing the tanks, removing the carburetor (of course), both of these I've mastered, which has forced me to learn the art of soldering the throttle cable end to keep it from fraying (which I think is a good idea, especially if you have a carb that has a simple screw tension trap to attach the cable to the carb). BTW, keep a spare inner cable on your bike. Don't put it in the tool bag, zip tie it to a frame member, lower or upper rigid frame tubes behind the seat are good places. Sorry, I got off track a bit..........

Intake Manifolds leak.... It seems they will leak twice a year. I live in SE Idaho. Fall and Spring weather and temp changes is when that leak occurs. Temp changes causing expansion and contraction of 2 types of metal, and a rubber O-ring, means that something will no longer seal right. There are many opinions on the type of seal to use and what type of clamp to use. I'm still using the O-Ring (it's a square type rubber instead of the round profile you see in hardware stores). After tearing the manifold off the engine, I did some weapons maintenance stuff on the O-ring. I soaked the O-ring overnight in semi-hot mineral oil. This reconditioned the O-ring nicely. I also used metal polish and polished the interior of the aluminum manifold. Carefully check the surfaces that the O-ring engages to remove any nicks. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEING ANAL ON PREP AND CLEANING OF THE MANIFOLD O-RING SURFACES ON THE MANIFOLD AND THE ENGINE SURFACE!!! The manifold clamps are single bolt and seemed to be in great shape.

RE-ASSEMBLY OF MANIFOLD. Sorry, this is in painful detail, as there are others like me that have nothing better to do than make these machines rolling perfection.........

PREP: There are three principles to consider here. 1. O-ring quality. 2. O-ring contact surfaces being nick free. 3. Correct "stress relief" of the parts in contact (manifold, o-ring, clamps, and carburetor (alignment)). I read all the comments on assembling the O-ring and manifold dry or with some type of other agent (oil, grease, even sealants). Correct stress relief is done with either heat or super cold. I chose heat. I also decided to use mil-spec weapons grease (looks like Vaseline, but far stickier, and does not flow into the fuel/air stream). I used a light coating on the O-rings and O-ring contact surfaces. I also put a very thin coat on the inside of the band clamps that come in contact with the O-ring. This provides stress relief during temperature changes and that prevents a leak from developing as the unlike surfaces try to stay mated during heating and cooling.

RE-MOUNTING MANIFOLD AND O-RINGS: Lastly, I used a hair dryer, hung from boot laces pointed directly into the intake manifold. The bolts on the clamps are only finger tight at this point. Light coats of Mil-Tech grease on all contact surfaces to promote a stress free mounting. I let the parts warm up to where I could feel an warm head on both cylinders. Anal, I guess, but it works. That took about an hour as it was 10-20 degrees outside.

Note: Have your manifold pressure test rig ready to go. I simply use a rubber stopper from Ace Hardware with a 1/4 hole drilled through it. (Wrap sandpaper around a pen and clean out any residual rubber from the drilling out to keep from rubber chunks from blowing into the heads. Also have some dish soap water in a spray bottle and your air compressor set to about 15 lbs MAX line pressure. Even the cheapo units from Home Depot have a line pressure gauge and are adjustable.

After manifold and parts are very warm to the touch, finger tighten, then take up about 2 full turns on each manifold clamp bolt, doing only 1/4 turn at a time on each clamp. Spray the soap water all over the intake clamps. Apply air pressure through a nozzle on the hose through the rubber stopper. You can hold the stopper in place by hand and hold the hose by hand, do this AFTER spraying on the soap water.

Note: It isn't always mentioned, but BOTH intake valves must be closed. Open the push rod covers on the inside (Intake Valves) rod covers and expose the push rods. Valves are fulled closed and will seal correctly when both rods are DOWN. You might have to fiddle with the kick arm to get this position, check by pressuring the intake manifold with air. If a valve leaks, you can hear it through the exhaust valve side of the head. It doesn't sound right and you'll know it. You also won't be able to get a seal with the rubber stopped, and chances are you won't get soap bubbles because there is no pressure in the manifold, as an intake valve is still open. With that said, it is a good idea to do a solid adjustment on the pushrods so that the intake valves will correctly seal shut for the intake leak test.

Back to the manifold leak test and clamp seal. With the intake valves CLOSED, providing no more than 20 lbs of air pressure into the intake manifold, test the rubber stopper seal. You should be able to physically hold the stopper in place. AT THIS POINT, YOU WILL SEE BUBBLES ON EITHER OR BOTH OF THE INTAKE CLAMPS, don't sweat that. Turn clamp bolts tight 1/4 turn at a time, only the leaking clamp, OR both clamps if bubbles present on both clamps.... Don't assume both clamps will take equal pressure or bolt tension to seal the manifold / O-rings. If you're working in the cold, stop now and then to re-heat the manifold with that hair dryer. Continue this until there are no bubbles on the clamps. If you're gutsy, loosen the clamps 1/4 turn at a time for a full turn and the re-tighten them that 1 full turn, re-test the seal with soap and air pressure. It should be bubble free.

At some point, you will reach a point where bubbles will no longer show up on the clamps. IF, that doesn't happen, change the O-rings and re-check the mating surfaces again, (Also don't forget those intake valves being closed properly). TIGHTER IS NOT BETTER!!!if you have trouble getting the clamps to seal, try rotating the clamps. Mine were originally positioned so that I had to tighten them from the left side of the bike with a long tip hex driver. The clamp bolts pointed down about 40 degrees. I ended up with the flipped around and with the bolts pointed to the right side of the bike, about 20 degrees from straight horizontal, pointing down.

This process makes the mount and seal DURABLE, that's the most important part, a durable seal. At that point, you have to mount the carburetor back to the clamps. Remember a support brace is mounted from the bottom bolt of the carb (for a Bendix anyway) to a bolt on the engine case. This brace is there to provide support so that the weight and movement of the carb doesn't pull the intake manifold clamps and O-rings out of position. That would interrupt the seal and cause an air leak, which causes starting difficulties, running difficulties and major chaos.

I'm not the expert of manifolds by a long shot. But those guys are on this site. After you put everything back together, test ride. If it hiccups, backfires, acts like a fuel starvation issue, re-check the manifold seals.

IF none of this works, and IF the gremlin bell on your bike was put there by someone who's status is now EX something or another, remove that bell, smash it flat with a heavy hammer and seek a new bell, even if you have to put it there yourself. Said with a smile.
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