Oil pump check valve.

[George Greer]

OK,

Here goes with another question about oil pumps and check valves.

I have recently purchased several different diameter's and lengths of PEEK rod, with the intent on making a check valve ball to prevent wet sumping of the engine.

I read in Palmer's book, that the company tried to prevent the known problem with engine sumping, and tried a ball with a stem and sleeve to keep the ball in the same place all the time, but it was not used long because it apparently did not work.

My way of thinking is:

The company did not have the materals that we have now, and I think that the "metal-on-metal" seal did not, and will not completely ever solve the issue.

I am now in the process of making a 3/8" diameter "ball with a stem" on it. The stem is just a bit smaller than the ID of the spring and I think will aid in keeping the stemmed ball centered.

Has anyone ever thought of using PEEK for this application, AND has anyone ever seen a original example of the check valve with the stem that Harley used?

I did a bit of research, and found several companys in the US that make polished PEEK balls, but since it is the weekend, I won't be getting any reply until next week some time.

I will post photos of the progress, and finished product for you to ponder over as it goes. I am using a radius gauge as I am making it.

OR, am I just wasting time?

George

[George Greer]

Other photos of my idea.

After I got the shape and radius correct, I used the pads in the aircraft window kit to gradually polish the ball.

Worked it down and polished it up with the finest one in the kit 12000 grit.

I will take the stainless steel ball, and the PEEK one I made to work tomorrow and use the 10000 power magnifier to compare the surface's finish.

Thoughts?

[58flh]

George--You sure as hell should give it a go!---But An easier way is to put a shut-off on the feed!-(paint it red!-Or Put a rubberband on your mirror so you dont forget.---I had to put one on mine when going upstate NY!-to Pulaski Salmon fishing.The lines always FROZE from condensation while cooling!--This made it clean & easy to pull the feed & Smash the ice out against a screwdriver.This was STANDARD ISSUE for all the guys riding up there the last week of SEPTEMBER.Theres alreadt snow in the hills!-We had to wait coming home a few times for noon so the sun melted the blackice!.Then it was 6hrs. back home hauling 300lbs. of Meat & 20lbs. of Eggs!--I tie my own sacks & the Browntrout in NJ LOVE them.You just break 1-egg with the hook & you see the oil-slik on the water in -(KEN LOCKWOOD GOURGE!)--It was rated 1 of top 10 flyfishing olny places in the US in 95!.SORRY for rambling ,now I got steelhead on my mind .Anyway I say try it if it works GREAT!-If not /you know whats-up.I havent sumped since i burnished my pump in the early 90s!!-(REALLY).It could sit for my 3-4 month winter & nothing when I fire her up!---& I dont have the feed valve on anymore!/That was for COLDASS Fishing trips.-----RICHIE

[Bigincher]

Hell of an effort, George. I sure hope it works- you might be onto something.
It sure beats a shut-off valve, painted red or not!
Looking forward to your report on the microscopic surface texture. It would be very cool to get photos of that.

[George Greer]

Thanks.

I will try and take photos of the two balls.

I do know that I want to "burnish/clean" the valve's seat.

Just to start off good and clean.

George

[George Greer]

Robbie,

Thank you for the photo of the pump.

Hope what I have in mind works.

George

[hogboy52]

Why not simply place an O-ring between the ball and seat?

[JR JOHNSON]

good idea,my 59 had a sump probs,after sitting a bit,lap the ball seat,still did the same thing,then i started to look elsewhere,then the pump gasket was about .011 thick,james gasket around .005 about.installed thinner gaskets,cured the short term sumping, never had a oil pressure prob with the thicker gaskets,since the cast iron pump have no seal between the pressure gear side,return gear side,i be leave that the oil was passing between the gear sets,witch would let oil seep into the sump side of the pump,than down to the crank case,alum pumps have that seal. and I've seen cast iron pumps that somebody had machine ,installed a seal,back in the day.just my opinion,with respect JR....

[George Greer]

Ok,

Took the stuff to work, and the magnifier is only 1000 power, and no ability to take photos from the eyepiece.

Anyway, the brand new 3/8" diam stainless steel shows pits and craters in the surface not huge, but there.

The PEEK, day and night.......smooth as glass.. I will report that I did take quite a bit of time on the lathe with it polishing with finer and finer paper from the Micro-Mesh window polishing kit. And I am glad that I did.

JR. do you have a part number for the seal your talking about?

I have scavange and pump/engine side gaskets and are both two thou thick.

George

EDIT and PS.

Just got a email from one of the companys that I wrote to about the PEEK balls, Smallest ball currently in stock is 1/2" diam. 3/8" in production in 2016

[58flh]

George---Its olny when you fill the tank & light her up --That will give you your results!.I think the Peek seal that you made will conform to any abnormalities concerning the seat!.I think its a GREAT EFFORT & Olny the BEST wishes on your experiment.I know that the Peek can handle the temps. no problem.--I think your going to have to play with different Pressures of the spring.Im sure your already ready for that.IF you can magnify the seat /you will see if its egged shape or thinner on one end,etc.If it looks good I would go for it.If any problems come up you can always put the stock ball in & give it a Strike with a hammer on the seat.Not hard ,but enuff to maybe make a rounder /flatter seat???--Just thinking here.----ALL the BEST---Respectfully----Richie

[JR JOHNSON]

George,what i understand it's the seal used from 68 to 84 oil pumps,sorry ,I've have no part #. with respect......JR

[George Greer]

JR,

No problemo, just a tad bit more parts manuals to look at to see if I can find one.

Got a co-worker that might have one

Thanks

George

[George Greer]

OK,

I found out that I in fact had a manual on my computer.

Part number for the seal:

26227-58

Now to find one locally.

Thanks again.

George

[George Greer]

OK,

One step further.

Got the seals from WW Cycles in Würzburg.

Now to take apart the pump once more and machine the pump to accept the seal, and reassemble the pump.

I do hope that the addition of the PEEK ball and the seal will forever cure any wet sumping issues.

We will see.

George

[james]

George, I think the whole idea is great! Tell me if i missed something here, what are you using for a seat for the Peek ball?
The original pump casting burnished or a peek type seat insert?
Keep at it and send more pictures.
Jim M