My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

Identification of case numbers and cylinder heads
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OLD WUN
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My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#1

Post by OLD WUN »

The Harley worker stamped the wrong numbers on the engine case and instead of tossing the case away they just stamped a line or two on the wrong one. Then above it put the correct ones on it. Wonder if you have one of these? Does it hurt the value? or not even matter. :?
Lucky my bike is properly titled so no legal issue. Not able to post a photo of mine at this moment but just wondering if any others out there. I have seen on a Shovel a few years ago.
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#2

Post by docmel »

I have never heard of a factory , on case corrected numbers, let alone ones with a line stamped thru it, then new numbers stamped above the old ones. You are very fortunate you have a good title. If the factory did do it, its a case of the factory doing weird things at times. I have seen origina vin stampings that looked like a four year old stamped them, as well as some that used different fonts. Back in the day, things were done with stuff in hand at the time. Curious to how the title might list your numbers. Just the corrected an non lined numbers?
OLD WUN
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#3

Post by OLD WUN »

The only numbers on the title are the corrected ones. The motor case has 49FL---- and then the four new production numbers stamped above the lined out ones. Yes very pleased I have the title in hand with the corrected numbers only. Also have papers from the Highway Patrol stating that it was a factory correction. I will try to get photos soon.

As mentioned I saw it many years ago on a shovelhead done same way. Shovelhead owner was very aware of issue and said he always carried the title and registration in case needed.
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#4

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

OLD WUN, factory photos exist of a Flathead originally stamped 43WLG1046 but the error was noticed before the bike left the factory and the engine was replaced with one stamped 43WLC1046.

You mentioned a Shovel. Did you mean a 1960s model?
Some 1970s Shovels had their engine VIN lined-through at the factory and a second VIN was stamped next to it. Crankcase production numbers on some 1970s Shovels and Sportsters were lined-through and sometimes you’ll see a small H-D Bar & Shield® stamped nearby.

Re your 49 and the papers from the Highway Patrol stating it was a factory correction, what year were these papers issued? And how did the Highway Patrol know it was a factory correction?
Eric
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#5

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

docmel wrote:I have seen origina vin stampings that looked like a four year old stamped them, as well as some that used different fonts. Back in the day, things were done with stuff in hand at the time.
I agree different stamps were used on occasion, depending on model, model year, etc. And sometimes even depending on what stage of the model year: early, mid, late/later.

But can you please elaborate on this: ‘Back in the day, things were done with stuff in hand at the time.’
Eric
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#6

Post by 58flh »

Oldwon-----There have been the issues that ERIC said & gave you good info!/Something else to check for----My bro has a 58 & it was sent to HD to have the ENGINE rebuilt!/HD PUT a metal Plate Riveted under the seat of Its now NEW NUMBER!--(I dont get it myself!)-The Title is 1958 & all the rest is good.Now the bike has its Factory Numbers on the title /Also the New numbers it was given!/& It says RECONSTRUCTED on the Title!--(2 vin#s).It was done at the York PENN. Plant.Does it affect the value /It depends & to someone who sees the 2-numbers ,It gives them a RED-FLAG!.Personaly Since I understand it --IF the BELLY #s match & the left Vin on pad is there -And the New numbers for a RECONSTRUCTED TITLE--Ill buy it Without thinking twice!.But Alot of guys Do not want a RECON title (USUALLY the ones that are going for Factory Perfect Bike!/Instead of paying 22K for a sweet 65/ or 58duo/That Recon will Mess with VALUE of machine when its all on the table!--Somebody will take it for 16K/& Anybody who has been down this road knows!--(You could put 30K into a project/But you wont get that 30K back out of it!.So for me Those cases would work perfectly on a bobber or chopper.But I like nessessity & Simple.---Good-Luck-----RICHIE
OLD WUN
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#7

Post by OLD WUN »

The 1985 Hwy Patrol vehicle examination report stated in the remark column that "this was common factory correction procedure back then. NATB also contacted." So they contacted NATB it looks like they did some research before putting their stamp of approval on this issue. They also noted that lower case belly # 249-5210 was not changed, no concern to them it appears on that. I am not sure why this was an issue in 1985, I have on info on event.

The shovelhead mentioned earlier by me was from the 1970's I remember. Nothing under my seat.

The title looks as clean as any other bike I have, nothing noted about recon, salvage or junk. As long as I have a current valid clean title.
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#8

Post by RUBONE »

The 1985 Hwy Patrol vehicle examination report stated in the remark column that "this was common factory correction procedure back then.
My guess is that they did not research it at all, just signed off. If they had researched it they would never have called it "common". It may have happened, or maybe not. In over 48 years of dealing with H-D vintage stuff and seeing thousands of case I have never seen one like you describe. So no, not "common" in my estimation. I doubt you could find another...
Oh, and the '70s AMF fiasco was a totally different deal with a different company. I worked in a dealership then and remember them well.
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#9

Post by Andygears »

Title and good paperwork is a must, but as a heads up... ,in Daytona Beach, during events they have a dedicated numbers team that checks out the shows, parking lots, & Main St. Looking for "Altered numbers" which, in Florida are immediate boat anchors. My friend bought a shovel from a police auction with full paperwork from Conneticut, reg. Etc. the Conn. Police lined or xxxx the old numbers and assigned new. The story ended with a week of pleading and the surrender of just the left case, his ride went home in the truck apart minus the case.
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#10

Post by Bigincher »

Daytona Bike Week isn't even worth the trip.
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#11

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

OLD WUN, thanks for your reply but it's still unclear how the Highway Patrol knew it was a factory correction. The report says ‘this was common factory correction procedure back then.’ But in 1985 how did the HP know what was factory correction procedure for 1949 models?

‘NATB also contacted.’
But what does that mean? It could just mean the NATB checked and found the engine was not on a hot sheet.

‘They also noted that lower case belly # 249-5210 was not changed …’
At one stage H-D kept a list of belly numbers and the accompanying engine serial numbers, allowing dealers and police to check if numbers on a certain engine were all original to each other. It is unclear how much of this info is at the factory today but if the HP report was done in 1985 then police may have contacted Harley to try to confirm all the numbers on the engine. On the report, does it confirm that belly numbers 249-5210 are original to your serial number 49FL++++?

Could you post the HP report please. And a photo of the serial number when you can. Thanks.
Eric
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#12

Post by Andygears »

Bigincher wrote:Daytona Bike Week isn't even worth the trip.
As a resident of Daytona for 12 years, I mostly agree. It ain't what it used to be.
OLD WUN
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#13

Post by OLD WUN »

The Hwy patrol did not explain themselves on how or who they talked to. I assume they felt it was not needed or they did their work and that is that.?? I really have same questions many of you do and I posted all I know. Maybe they were good with it as long as not a stolen with either old or new numbers or the cop thought he was a HD expert, I can only guess. Belly number relationship to VIN not mentioned.

It appears from response here that this is really not normal and a concern greater that I thought to a point. My question initially was if anybody had one from this time period, seems not.

As stated before am at least pleased to have a clean and clear title and belly numbers are matched and virgin. I will try to post photos of report later but to be honest I don't have ability to do it right now. I don't plan to ever venture into Florida with the bike so no issue, that state is a world away from me.
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#14

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Thanks, OLD WUN. I haven’t got any examples like yours from circa 1949.
What I do have are photos of number bosses that have been reduced in thickness and that appear to have been restamped using characters consistent with factory types for the year and model concerned: a 39 Knuckle, two 46 Knuckles, a 49 Pan, a 66 Shovel and a 67 Shovel. I do not know if they are factory corrections or not and sometimes I wonder if they may have been done by dealers on an engine-exchange basis. They could have been done by anybody really but it is interesting that all the characters look like factory types and not AM copies. Also, there is no indication that anyone tried to disguise the reduction in thickness of the number boss.

Getting back to the list of belly numbers and serial numbers at H-D, one forum member says he saw the list at the factory in the 1980s. However, that does not mean it is there in its entirety today. He said it is in the Service Department but the obvious problem is that if Harley employees can find records for about 1960-later, why can’t they find the rest, if in fact the earlier details are still there? Anyway, you could approach your local dealer with a letter asking for confirmation that your serial number is original to your belly numbers. Ask the dealer to send your letter to the H-D Service Department (not Customer Service). Obviously don’t tell them about the lined-out numbers, just supply the new numbers. IF—and it’s a big IF—your bike is still on file then maybe you’ll receive some info.
Eric
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Re: My 49 Panhead has factory corrected or goof up numbers, do you?

#15

Post by 49bones »

Mine has the wrong 6 on it. I just hope that it was changed for good reasons, maybe a famous high speed police chase or bank robbery :twisted: :mrgreen:
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