back tire hub problem

Wheels, hubs and tires
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el rojo
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back tire hub problem

#1

Post by el rojo »

I have a 62 and was wondering if anyone else has had the same problem. This has happened twice now. Was cruising along and noticed that the bike didn't respond to throttle all of a sudden. Thought it had slipped into neutral at first but tried other gears and still no power so I coasted to the shoulder. Upon examanation, I found out that there was a bunch of rivits that attach the chain gear to the hub of back tire and all the friggin rivits were gone so now no connection between the two. After the first time it happened and an expensive tow home, I put pan head stainless steel bolts with nuts in all the holes and figured I was good to go. Well I guess I was wrong. Has this happened to anyone else and if so, what did you do and is it working? Tired of being stranded along side the road with an expensive tow bill to boot! :(
El Rojo
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Re: back tire hub problem

#2

Post by RUBONE »

The bolt idea you did will work, but NOT with Stainless steel fasteners. Stainless (especially screws) is very poor material for stress and will fail as you discovered. Use high grade socket head screws and it will be fine.
hyrax222
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Re: back tire hub problem

#3

Post by hyrax222 »

I installed my sprocket (1979 Shovel) with stainless bolts and nyloc nuts. They stretched and one flew by my head during a dyno test. Upon shutting it down I saw only two bolts remaining and one nut between them. If this would have happened on the road it could have been catastophic.

I replaced them with grade eight bolts and nylocs...

I have SS bolts holding the brake calipers on as well. I have the grade eights to replace them soon to.

What was I thinking?
58flh
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Re: back tire hub problem

#4

Post by 58flh »

Elroho----Bolts are a good fix!/As was said NO STAINLESS/.stainless is very hard & fragile/which gives it no stretch & memory.I don't condone this //BUT on my Pan I put 4-1--inch welds once the sprockets set with a few bolts.Im not going home in a pick-up no more!.And yes the cast sucks to weld BUT WELD it does!/--Respectfully---Richie
old.wrench
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Re: back tire hub problem

#5

Post by old.wrench »

Stainless fasteners are O.K. for some applications (if you scuff them up a little with a coarse scotch-brite they look very much like cad-plated), but the regular garden-variety stainless bolts and screws you get at the hardware store are somewhere around a grade 3 as far as strength goes. You can buy high-strength stainless fasteners that are equivalent to grade 8, but you won't find them at your local hardware store. McMaster-Carr carries a good selection.

Geo.
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Re: back tire hub problem

#6

Post by Panacea »

Rojo! didn't the sprocket makeall kinds of racket when it came loose? I would think the chain would get all wrapped up with the frame and do some real damage, Glad you dodged the bullet!...Mike
el rojo
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Re: back tire hub problem

#7

Post by el rojo »

Panacea wrote:Rojo! didn't the sprocket makeall kinds of racket when it came loose? I would think the chain would get all wrapped up with the frame and do some real damage, Glad you dodged the bullet!...Mike
Both times it happened, there was no warning at all. I just lost power to the back tire upon acceleration and thought it somehow went into neutral or something. But I agree, if the back tire had locked up on me it could of been very ugly! I tried to find high strength Grade 8 fasteners or stronger yesterday and they all stop at 1/4" and I need 16 # 8's and 4 # 10's. I decided to replace them all with what I had before, stainless but use nylocks this time, and then put some small welds on it as Richie had mentioned. This is something that I am going to start checking from time to time and others should as well if it hasn't happened to them yet.
El Rojo
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Re: back tire hub problem

#8

Post by Scrap »

Are the "small welds" big enough? Is the quality of the weld good enough? cast iron welding requires skill. It usually is used to repair castings, not to weld steel to cast iron. The bolts will likely fail like they did the last time. It's not the nuts, it's the shear strength of the bolts you're using.
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Re: back tire hub problem

#9

Post by blewcrab »

I just checked ebay for Harley sprocket rivets ..they have sets for sale ,all under 20.00 ,some oem
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Re: back tire hub problem

#10

Post by RUBONE »

Personally I would NEVER weld any H-D drum. Yes, I know lots of guys do and have. But I don't trust or believe in it. Stock rivets installed correctly work just fine. And some of my stuff has been hot-rod strokers and used hard, not just stockers, all using rivets. It is a matter of keeping an eye on your drivetrain and not neglecting it. I have seen just as many junk drums with ripped off weld strips and broken bolts as failed rivets.
old.wrench
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Re: back tire hub problem

#11

Post by old.wrench »

rojo,
I believe a part of your problem (especially since its happened twice) is the size of fasteners that you are using.
An 8-32 is awful scrawny - not enough meat.
The proper sized o.e.m. rivets (are the small ones for the sprocket 5/32" dia.?) completely fill the rivet hole when they are set properly.
I'm thinking that the 8-32 screws that you are using are most likely a slightly loose fit in the holes, and when you rip through the gears and slam the brakes on there is going to be a slight amount of movement, and after repeated cycles of that movement, those little screws go POOF!!!
I always use rivets myself, but if I ever did use screws or bolts I'd certainly go with something more substantial than 8-32 !
I do know of one guy who used bolts instead of rivets, but he drilled out the holes to take 1/4" bolts.
I'd say you were lucky the first two times when they failed and you didn't hurt yourself or your bike.
Good Luck is a very good thing to have, but you don't want to abuse it :) .

Geo.
el rojo
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Re: back tire hub problem

#12

Post by el rojo »

blewcrab wrote:I just checked ebay for Harley sprocket rivets ..they have sets for sale ,all under 20.00 ,some oem
Thanks, i'll get a proper set on ebay that you were talking about.
El Rojo
el rojo
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Re: back tire hub problem

#13

Post by el rojo »

RUBONE wrote:Personally I would NEVER weld any H-D drum. Yes, I know lots of guys do and have. But I don't trust or believe in it. Stock rivets installed correctly work just fine. And some of my stuff has been hot-rod strokers and used hard, not just stockers, all using rivets. It is a matter of keeping an eye on your drivetrain and not neglecting it. I have seen just as many junk drums with ripped off weld strips and broken bolts as failed rivets.
This is my third pan and never had a problem with the first two but this one maybe was done wrong with soft bolts when I got it. It's not something that I would of checked as I had never had the problem with the others but now I just got an education. This is now an area that I will always keep an eye on.
El Rojo
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Re: back tire hub problem

#14

Post by el rojo »

old.wrench wrote:rojo,
I believe a part of your problem (especially since its happened twice) is the size of fasteners that you are using.
An 8-32 is awful scrawny - not enough meat.
The proper sized o.e.m. rivets (are the small ones for the sprocket 5/32" dia.?) completely fill the rivet hole when they are set properly.
I'm thinking that the 8-32 screws that you are using are most likely a slightly loose fit in the holes, and when you rip through the gears and slam the brakes on there is going to be a slight amount of movement, and after repeated cycles of that movement, those little screws go POOF!!!
I always use rivets myself, but if I ever did use screws or bolts I'd certainly go with something more substantial than 8-32 !
I do know of one guy who used bolts instead of rivets, but he drilled out the holes to take 1/4" bolts.
I'd say you were lucky the first two times when they failed and you didn't hurt yourself or your bike.
Good Luck is a very good thing to have, but you don't want to abuse it :) .

Geo.
my hub has 4 large holes and 16 smaller holes. I tried different sized bolts on each until I found the ones that would fit and the # 8's I had to actually screw them threw as they were almost too large and the # 10's slid threw with no slop. There is no way a 5/16" or even a 1/4" would of fit. Now I am wondering if I have a bastard hub from the previous owner?? Does everyone else, s hubs have 4 holes that are larger and 16 that are smaller?
El Rojo
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Re: back tire hub problem

#15

Post by RUBONE »

All the factory sprockets are like yours. The 4 larger rivets are dowel pins to locate the sprocket correctly on the drum, the rest are regular rivets. Nobody "bastardized" anything...
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