1959 Panhead Swing Arm Question

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fxsjim
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1959 Panhead Swing Arm Question

#1

Post by fxsjim »

I have a question for the Panhead Duo glide experts.

I am restoring a 1959 FL and I am fairly certain this was not a pieced together bike. It has, what the latest edition of the Palmer book identifies, as a type three swing arm for a 1960/61 bike. The right axle clip has the number 47606-58 on the outer surface and the left axle clip has the number 47614-58 on the "cell" on the inside portion. There is no zerk fitting at the pivot portion.

A type two swing arm, what Palmer identifies as correct for a 1958/59 FL, has the number 47614-58 on the outside of the left axle clip.

I have a later production bike I think. Could the type three swing arm be correct for my bike?
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Re: 1959 Panhead Swing Arm Question

#2

Post by 58flh »

Theres a good chance it rolled out with that swingarm on it.Depending on the month If they had 58s left over /It did not get thrown away.Lets see what others say---Richie
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Re: 1959 Panhead Swing Arm Question

#3

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Jim, welcome to the forum.
I agree with Richie in general because a part officially introduced at the start of a certain model year may in fact sometimes debut very late in the previous model year. Palmer voiced a similar opinion in his 1994 edition in Appendix C, Model Specifics and Details, on page 519: ‘Because the factory occasionally released new parts in limited and controlled situations for testing and public reaction prior to official introduction, a part listed as being introduced in one year may well have been released late in the previous year’s production. It is too difficult at this time to document each and every time this occurred but it should be kept in mind.’
(In his 2014 edition, Appendix C, Model Specifics and Details is on page 814 but it doesn’t contain Palmer’s abovementioned opinion.)

You said you think you have a later production bike so I assume you’re judging by the engine SN? If so, and with no offence meant, are you sure the SN was stamped at the factory? And in what range is the SN? What is the frame date code? On the left axle clip, what is the die number and what is the run number? (I'm not sure if the die number and run number will help much at this stage because I only have a few examples but it would be good to know what they are for future reference.)

As you said, your swingarm is what Palmer currently calls type 3 and according to him, 47614-58 was outside the left clip for only his type 2 which is on the left of page 136. That picture also appears to show die number 1 and run number 65 but those numbers are clearer in the photo below which was on eBay a while ago and the picture on page 136 looks like an altered version of this photo, judging by the marks:
47614-58 outside_zpsjdj8tg0b.jpg
But is there a swingarm between Palmer's type 2 and his type 3? The next photo is a different swingarm and it too has 47614-58 outside:
Swingarm outside_zpsrznjlkn0.jpg
I cannot read the run number but the die number is 2 which should mean it was made after the first swingarm I posted. The next picture shows the inside of the second swingarm but the top rib appears longer than what Palmer says for a swingarm with 47614-58 outside:
Swingarm inside_zpsj4tg5izf.jpg
If this second swingarm I posted is unaltered from original then it may be what I would call type 3 and yours would be what I call type 4.

Just out of curiosity, what is the forging number on your pivot housing and is it above the housing or below it?
Eric
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fxsjim
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Re: 1959 Panhead Swing Arm Question

#4

Post by fxsjim »

Here are some photographs of my swing arm.

The serial number is in the FL55XX range and the frame is stamped 8K. I am sure the serial number is a factory stamping. I also have the title from the original owner so I am second owner.

The casting number is on the bottom of the pivot and there is no grease fitting.

I am using the Palmer info from his newest 2 book set and it is quite detailed in comparison with the first edition book.
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Re: 1959 Panhead Swing Arm Question

#5

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Thanks for the photos, Jim. I sent you a PM with SN info.

I agree that SN 55xx would make it later in production and frame date code 8K also sounds okay. No grease fitting on the swingarm is consistent with 59 and a few other years. For Palmer’s type 2 and type 3 he says the pivot tube could have its forging number on the top or bottom but I’m not convinced about that. I’m wondering if it was on top when it first appeared (58 models) but then went below at some point and stayed there. If I’m right then your swingarm would now be what I’d refer to as my type 5, now that I know your number is below the pivot tube. (The difference between my type 4 and 5 is the location of that number.) It's hard to be sure of the number on your pivot tube. Palmer says they have 47558-58 but some pictures I have look like 47556-58. Can you tell if your fifth number is 8 or 6?

In the next few days I’ll add the die number and run numbers from your swingarm to my collection and see if they fit in with what I have thus far. Anyway, I certainly think it’s possible your swingarm is original to the bike.

I agree Palmer’s SE is better than his FE regarding swingarm info but some details are still missing and I’ve been compiling my own list of swingarm types for some time now. If the swingarm I posted above with the red arrow is original then it seems there were at least eleven types although some other differences are minor.

And there are still problems with some SN info in the new book. One of the minor errors is that Palmer says SNs for 1959 Panheads and Servi-Cars began at 1000 but that is incorrect. For 1959 models, SNs began at 1001 and this info was supplied by Herbert Wagner who got it from H-D model layout sheets for 1959. (Palmer got this wrong for 58 and 57 too because SNs for both those model years also began at 1001, not 1000.)
Eric
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Re: 1959 Panhead Swing Arm Question

#6

Post by fxsjim »

Eric

Thank you again for your insights. I tend to agree that there could be as many as 11 swing arm variants. Your "red arrow" really got my attention when I realized that the side plate had a two rib closed cell.

I looked at the pivot casting number on my swing arm with a magnifying glass. I think the fifth number is a 6 making the casting 47556-58.

You have been a great help and I am sure I will have more questions.

Thank you
Jim
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Re: 1959 Panhead Swing Arm Question

#7

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Thanks for checking your pivot tube number. In December 2012 I emailed Bruce regarding problems with the swingarm info in his FE, including his omission of the pivot tube number. I mentioned to Bruce that it was 47556 58 and that it apparently starts out on top but is later found below. I don’t know why he says in the SE that the fifth character is 8. Among the photos I sent him were three of the red arrow swingarm and I referred to it as my type 3. But I received no response from Bruce regarding any of the swingarm info I sent him.

On your left axle clip, the die number and run number seem to fit in with what I have for early swingarms. On page 136 Bruce says the run number on the left clip consisted of two digits, started in the 60s and incremented upward. That is consistent with his two photos on 136 because they have 65 and 70. Yours appears to be 72 and I have some higher than that but below 100. However, the photo at top right on page 137 contradicts Bruce’s text because it shows H22 and he doesn’t explain the H or why the number is lower than in the 60s. Incidentally, the photo at top left on 137 is another swingarm that was for sale a while ago and I have eight photos of it. The run number is upside down and may be 92. The left die number (inside) is 7 and the right-hand die number (outside) is 24.

The lowest run number I’ve seen on a left clip is 64 and I’m thinking they may have continued through 100, with the highest of them being on a 47614-58A clip. That was the forging number that first appeared for 1963 (or maybe very late for 62?). I’m also guessing that after run number 100, Hs made their first appearance and that too would have been on a left clip with 47614-58A. The lowest example I have is H4 and it is upside down in the photo below:
H4_zps5vo32zet.jpg
Other examples I have are H8, H10, H14, H20, H29, H30, H38 and H42. All the Hs are on left clips with forging number 47614-58A or 47614-58B. A forum member here has H20 on his 1969 model and that is consistent with Palmer’s H22 photo which is of a 68–72 clip. I don’t yet know what H indicates and one of my early examples (my type 5) even has L76 but I don’t know what L indicates either.
Eric
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