1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

VIN Identification
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cbellamore
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1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#1

Post by cbellamore »

I came across a 1948 FL left side case
I have tried to do as much research as possible and keep coming up with conflicting findings

The Vin reads 48FL10XXX
so it has 5 digits in the production number after the year and model designation in the Vin
Is this a proper Vin or is it not ?

My understanding is that it is not a proper Vin number and the production number is too high for 1948

I managed to come across this thread here which confused me a little bit
http://www.harley-davidsonforums.com/fo ... d-vin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

if anyone can give me a sure answer on whether or not that number should exist I would greatly appreciate it
thanks
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#2

Post by RUBONE »

Lots of 5 digit VINs in '48. Here is an original example. Keep in mind that engines were numbered in "families", so all the Big twin E and F series are one family. With a total production of nearly 13,000 units and a starting point of 1000 the numbers run into the high 13,000s.
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#3

Post by lownslow »

RUBONE wrote: Keep in mind that engines were numbered in "families", so all the Big twin E and F series are one family. .
Robbie, has it always been done that way or was there a specific starting point or year they began?

Curious, John
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#4

Post by john HD »

i have seen a few 48's with 10,000+ numbers. robbie's example is the first i have seen in the 12 range. keep in mind, in the post war years there was quite a pent up demand for everything cars, trucks etc.

john
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#5

Post by RUBONE »

Robbie, has it always been done that way or was there a specific starting point or year they began?
Always in families John,
So you will never see a number like 48F1234 and another as 48FL1234, or 48EL 1234. But there can be a 48WL1234 and a 48UL1234. Each family started at 1000 (or 1001 depending on year) and went up from there. That is why you do not see numbers in the 20000 range. But since the combined production of 48 OHV bikes included E, EL, F, and FL the highest number represents the total number built plus 1000.
I have never paid attention to J and F series Twenties numbers, but all the thirties bikes, B, C, DL, RL, VL, VLD, etc all follow that pattern.
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#6

Post by Frankenstein »

47 must have been a bumper crop year as well, my Knuck is 47EL10143.
DD
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#7

Post by RUBONE »

47 must have been a bumper crop year as well, my Knuck is 47EL10143.
That isn't even a high number Frankenstein!
Mine's 12028
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#8

Post by lownslow »

RUBONE wrote:
Robbie, has it always been done that way or was there a specific starting point or year they began?
Always in families John,
So you will never see a number like 48F1234 and another as 48FL1234, or 48EL 1234. But there can be a 48WL1234 and a 48UL1234. Each family started at 1000 (or 1001 depending on year) and went up from there. That is why you do not see numbers in the 20000 range. But since the combined production of 48 OHV bikes included E, EL, F, and FL the highest number represents the total number built plus 1000.
I have never paid attention to J and F series Twenties numbers, but all the thirties bikes, B, C, DL, RL, VL, VLD, etc all follow that pattern.
Robbie
Excellent information Robbie.

So from this article, which may or may not be gospel, is it strictly 2452 FL's? or 2452 bikes made in that family? 2452 sounds like a reasonable amount of FL's in 1941 as WW2 started in December so there was basically an entire year of production before going to the war bikes, WL, WLA, etc.

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/museum/ ... 002372.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#9

Post by RUBONE »

That article isn't even close...
The ENTIRE '41 production year was built. Keep in mind that the model year went basically from September to late July, with August being a changeover time for the upcoming new models. Almost half of the '42 model year was built before the factory shut down civilian production. Pearl Harbor was Dec 7th of '41, production ended on Jan 6th of '42. And despite the war, other than '43 when very few civilian models were built for specific orders (primarily police), from '44 on production moved along with a fair number of bikes built for the civilian market (as approved by the War Production Board). WLA models and UA, XA, as well as experimental models were built alongside the civilian stuff. One never totally replaced the other.
H-D claims a total of 1743 E and F series Knuckles in '42, along with about 1800 U series.
'42 had the distinction of being the fanciest models in Deluxe trim of any Knuckles.

By H-Ds own claim there were 5149 Knuckles (EL and FL) and 4145 Big Twin Flatheads built in '41.
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#10

Post by 1950Panhead »

Five digit vins, legend numbers (not perfect).

47FL1001 to 47FL12648 (includes EL) (most knucles of any year)
48FL1001 to 48FL13944 (includes EL) (most pans of any year)
49FL1001 to 49FL13685 (includes EL)
50FL1001 to 50FL11265 (includes EL)

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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#11

Post by cdndewey »

Frankenstein wrote:47 must have been a bumper crop year as well, my Knuck is 47EL10143.
DD
I may be wrong but I believe there were more 47's made than all the 36's to 46's combined.
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#12

Post by RUBONE »

I may be wrong but I believe there were more 47's made than all the 36's to 46's combined.
Not even close Dewey. The previous production was over twice as great as the '47. still it was the most built of any type to date.
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#13

Post by lownslow »

RUBONE wrote:
I may be wrong but I believe there were more 47's made than all the 36's to 46's combined.
Not even close Dewey. The previous production was over twice as great as the '47. still it was the most built of any type to date.
I guess I was just trying to nail down how many '41 FL's were made. I do know this............there ain't many left.
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#14

Post by RUBONE »

I guess I was just trying to nail down how many '41 FL's were made. I do know this............there ain't many left.
Actually a fair number still exist. They are one of the more common ones to show up. The biggest issue with them was case brakage as they still used the short rib case for most of the production year. Many had the cases replaced. I have a '41EL project bike i need to get going on. Just as soon as I win that lottery..... :roll:
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Re: 1948 Panhead FL Vin numbers question 4 or 5 digits ?

#15

Post by lownslow »

RUBONE wrote:
I guess I was just trying to nail down how many '41 FL's were made. I do know this............there ain't many left.
Actually a fair number still exist. They are one of the more common ones to show up. The biggest issue with them was case brakage as they still used the short rib case for most of the production year. Many had the cases replaced. I have a '41EL project bike i need to get going on. Just as soon as I win that lottery..... :roll:
While waiting patiently for the PO to part with his machine I traveled the internet and ebay quite a bit and really didn't see many '41s for sale. Lot's of other years but not many to compare with mine. I realize this doesn't mean squat as the PO had it for almost 25 years which only means he was reluctant to part with it.

Regarding the short rib case..........Mine were extended during the rebuild. I posted a thread on here but not much response.

Welding ribs for strengthening

It's not a perfect looking job but you have to get up close to tell. I wish I could see inside. I don't think someone would attempt this unless it was going to make a difference and actually provide some strengthening. Well, the PO rode it regularly and pampered it I'm sure soooo.....so far so good. I certainly don't "ride mine like I stole em" so we'll just run it until it's in need of another rebuild.
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