Primary drive poll
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Re: Primary drive poll
I guess it all comes down to who taught you how to ride, Folks.
The first rule I was told was "Don't get on it if you're scared of it."
The very next rule was "Get to neutral before you get to a stop."
It didn't take but a few awkward moments to learn that in a panic, you could easily knock the shifter between gears.
Let us try to return to topic about the mechanical aspects of the clutch assembly:
If the pedal is in the air, the drum walks sideways further than in a normal shift, and if you are posing at a stop, then the drum is running on its rollers for extended periods.
Roller lube life is lost dramatically.
If the pedal is left in the air while parked, the springs face fatigue from constant compression.
If the pedal is so stiff that "feel" is lost,
the plates risk burning from partial pressure from an incomplete engagement: stuck in a "feather" position.
This also can result in the common complaint of difficult starting, as energy is lost to slip.
"Feathering" a clutch has its time and place.
But you should feel it with your foot as well as the machine's response.
When one can feel the clutch as one would an auto pedal, one can leave a stop with grace, instead of a lurching launch.
The ordinary stop for the engagement throw often is the footboard, with marks to show it. A stop pin gives a finite adjustment on both travel limits, and places the pedal action in an arc that does not require a double-jointed ankle.
The real pay-off for a free and responding clutch is that you can ride forward on your Buddy seat to accommodate the most valuable of payloads, a passenger. Just work the heelpad with your toe, without tweak upon your ankle.
Imagine if you can, if hand clutches had to be moved against a drag tensioner. Levers would have to look like shear's handles.
My decades of servicing a wide range of models in a wide range of condition taught me that trusting a pedal dampener is where the term "suicide" originated, as vibrations, or even the wind on your bellbottoms, can trip it back into engagement, sending the machine forward into the intersection, or whatever.
(Like so many euphemisms, its meaning has been diverted by later generations.)
Anyone who walks away from a running machine with the pedal in the air risks being caned by an old man.
Just my opinion, Folks.
.....Cotten
The first rule I was told was "Don't get on it if you're scared of it."
The very next rule was "Get to neutral before you get to a stop."
It didn't take but a few awkward moments to learn that in a panic, you could easily knock the shifter between gears.
Let us try to return to topic about the mechanical aspects of the clutch assembly:
If the pedal is in the air, the drum walks sideways further than in a normal shift, and if you are posing at a stop, then the drum is running on its rollers for extended periods.
Roller lube life is lost dramatically.
If the pedal is left in the air while parked, the springs face fatigue from constant compression.
If the pedal is so stiff that "feel" is lost,
the plates risk burning from partial pressure from an incomplete engagement: stuck in a "feather" position.
This also can result in the common complaint of difficult starting, as energy is lost to slip.
"Feathering" a clutch has its time and place.
But you should feel it with your foot as well as the machine's response.
When one can feel the clutch as one would an auto pedal, one can leave a stop with grace, instead of a lurching launch.
The ordinary stop for the engagement throw often is the footboard, with marks to show it. A stop pin gives a finite adjustment on both travel limits, and places the pedal action in an arc that does not require a double-jointed ankle.
The real pay-off for a free and responding clutch is that you can ride forward on your Buddy seat to accommodate the most valuable of payloads, a passenger. Just work the heelpad with your toe, without tweak upon your ankle.
Imagine if you can, if hand clutches had to be moved against a drag tensioner. Levers would have to look like shear's handles.
My decades of servicing a wide range of models in a wide range of condition taught me that trusting a pedal dampener is where the term "suicide" originated, as vibrations, or even the wind on your bellbottoms, can trip it back into engagement, sending the machine forward into the intersection, or whatever.
(Like so many euphemisms, its meaning has been diverted by later generations.)
Anyone who walks away from a running machine with the pedal in the air risks being caned by an old man.
Just my opinion, Folks.
.....Cotten
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Re: Primary drive poll
Who is advocating that?Anyone who walks away from a running machine with the pedal in the air risks being caned by an old man
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Re: Primary drive poll
I am not advocating violence, PanJud,PanJud wrote:Who is advocating that?Anyone who walks away from a running machine with the pedal in the air risks being caned by an old man
But I have seen the tears that followed, and the young fellow probably would have preferred to be caned.
....Cotten
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Re: Primary drive poll
There is no reason for a foot clutch, even with damper intact, to have a stiff or heavy spring feel. Friction point is very easy to determine, and ankles need not be compromised to use one.
I appreciate your input Cotten, but as you said, it is just your opinion. And everyone has one. My experience tells me differently.
I appreciate your input Cotten, but as you said, it is just your opinion. And everyone has one. My experience tells me differently.
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Re: Primary drive poll
It seems we agree from the start, Robbie,RUBONE wrote:There is no reason for a foot clutch, even with damper intact, to have a stiff or heavy spring feel. Friction point is very easy to determine, and ankles need not be compromised to use one.
I appreciate your input Cotten, but as you said, it is just your opinion. And everyone has one. My experience tells me differently.
As "There is no reason for a foot clutch, even with damper intact, to have a stiff or heavy spring feel."
That is exactly my contention.
Unless you need to hop alongside and push through deep mud, of course...
And as you very well know, not all machines are pristine pieces of hardware that wish to cooperate. Advising all riders to explicitly trust a cantankerous design is honestly imprudent.
What was REALLY stupid was the factories' choice of putting the handbrake on the same side as the shifter.
But that's another discussion, of course.
Folks have the right to configure their machines as they personally find most comfortable and safe (except for AMCA judging.)
Most folks I have encouraged found that letting the clutch be a clutch is more comfortable amd enjoyable.
Especially the performance-minded.
The rest usually sold the machine.
....Cotten
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Re: Primary drive poll
nah, I meant, Who is advocating walking away from the machine? I sure don't, nor do I put my feet down at a light whilst leaving it engaged, (both of which you assume I've been doing for 20 years) I like the concept of the pedal PRETTY MUCH staying where I leave it.....am nonplussed as to why someone WOULDN'T want it that way, for that matter, but, as previously stated, to each his own. Anyhow, was staring at it today, trying to devine where the stop pin would go, gonna have to dig up some picturesCotten wrote:I am not advocating violence, PanJud,PanJud wrote:Who is advocating that?Anyone who walks away from a running machine with the pedal in the air risks being caned by an old man
But I have seen the tears that followed, and the young fellow probably would have preferred to be caned.
....Cotten
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Re: Primary drive poll
Just for clarity, Folks,PanJud wrote: nah, I meant, Who is advocating walking away from the machine? I sure don't, nor do I put my feet down at a light whilst leaving it engaged, (both of which you assume I've been doing for 20 years) I like the concept of the pedal PRETTY MUCH staying where I leave it.....am nonplussed as to why someone WOULDN'T want it that way, for that matter, but, as previously stated, to each his own. Anyhow, was staring at it today, trying to devine where the stop pin would go, gonna have to dig up some pictures
Beyond the undesireable effects within the clutch pack that brought this up,
my basic contention is that a stiff pedal robs your feel for the clutch.
If that ain't obvious,... ... .. . .. I may never make myself clear.
If it doesn't respond with a give and take to your slightest touch, you are missing a very intimate part of the romance and adventure of a vintage machine.
Perhaps some can't handle it.
Many love it.
Back to the stop pin, I think I posted this in a previous discussion. ....Cotten
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Re: Primary drive poll
Using a belt drive on my 62 panhead. It was part of the TEC Cycle package when I added an electric start package.
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Re: Primary drive poll
I STILL USE THE FACTORY SET-UP.I CONSIDERED CHANGING A OPEN BELT DRIVE YEARS AGO.THE GUYS AT H-D SHOP TOLD ME I COULD OPEN A MAJOR CAN
OF REGRET .I HAVE 49F,RUNNING A FLH CAM,THEY EXPLAINED TO ME THAT TOO MUCH PRE-LOAD WOULD COOK SPROCKETSIDE BEARING AS WOULD EXCESS SIDE.
SO I JUST PASSED ON IDEA,WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS DID'NT WANT TO CUT MY OWN THROAT.
STILL WOULD LOVE TO RUN OPEN BELT DRIVE SYSTEM,2 INCH LOOKS GREAT,BUT IS THERE A LOT PROBLEMS CHANGING OVER TO THIS OR OTHER SET-UPS?
ANY AND ALL INPUT NEEDED,IF YOU HAVE FACTS NOT BULL CRAP!
THANK YOU
MADJACK
OF REGRET .I HAVE 49F,RUNNING A FLH CAM,THEY EXPLAINED TO ME THAT TOO MUCH PRE-LOAD WOULD COOK SPROCKETSIDE BEARING AS WOULD EXCESS SIDE.
SO I JUST PASSED ON IDEA,WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS DID'NT WANT TO CUT MY OWN THROAT.
STILL WOULD LOVE TO RUN OPEN BELT DRIVE SYSTEM,2 INCH LOOKS GREAT,BUT IS THERE A LOT PROBLEMS CHANGING OVER TO THIS OR OTHER SET-UPS?
ANY AND ALL INPUT NEEDED,IF YOU HAVE FACTS NOT BULL CRAP!
THANK YOU
MADJACK
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Re: Primary drive poll
I changed to a 1.5" BDL enclosed belt last spring. I've since put around 3000 trouble free, quiet miles on it. If I had it to do over again, I would. I can't stress strongly enough how important transmission to sprocket shaft alignment is with a belt. It MUST track in the middle of each pulley. If the tracking is off, you can count on premature belt failure and excessive clutch basket walking.
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Re: Primary drive poll
Times Welding wrote:I changed to a 1.5" BDL enclosed belt last spring. I've since put around 3000 trouble free, quiet miles on it. If I had it to do over again, I would. I can't stress strongly enough how important transmission to sprocket shaft alignment is with a belt. It MUST track in the middle of each pulley. If the tracking is off, you can count on premature belt failure and excessive clutch basket walking.
TM--Glad you got her going down the road!---I just wanted to add---THAT not olny un a BELT should Sprockets be Paralel!--But Chains to!/-Both will suffer FAST-WEAR!/-Difference is the belt might pop!--The chain will get you home!/& probably will last a whole season!.Im not condemning belts!--I have acquired 49fl-cases awhile back & plan on a open-Belt/Funbike!/BOBBER-SET up.---Richie
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Re: Primary drive poll
I have been running an enclosed belt for years on my 58 FLH and haven't had a problem with it so far. I moved the crank case vent from the primary and focused it on the rear chain. Works great with no oil on the primary belt.
It does boldly mark it's spot.
It does boldly mark it's spot.
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Re: Primary drive poll
I run a chain on my 61Pan which is fine but you do have to adjust it on times and you do get oil dropping out the case. My wife runs a belt drive which has the advantage of no oil dropping and no adjustments. The thing I hate about it is the bloody terrible rattle you get out a belt drive clutch.
I think it would have to be the chain for me.
Regards Mike
I think it would have to be the chain for me.
Regards Mike
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Re: Primary drive poll
Hey,
I am running a chain primary but have a 1 1/2 BDL that a buddy gave me, I have been thinking of changing it up,I saw where a guy used a set screw to block off the primary oiller, I am running a 59 left side case and my right side is earlier. Is it worth the trouble? The chain will probably always get me home,
What are the advantages? I don't mind adjusting the chain now and then.
Eric
I am running a chain primary but have a 1 1/2 BDL that a buddy gave me, I have been thinking of changing it up,I saw where a guy used a set screw to block off the primary oiller, I am running a 59 left side case and my right side is earlier. Is it worth the trouble? The chain will probably always get me home,
What are the advantages? I don't mind adjusting the chain now and then.
Eric