Value of this butchered frame?

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Pete808
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Value of this butchered frame?

#1

Post by Pete808 »

Decided to just sell this thing as is. My friend is interested in it but I am not sure of what to sell it for. I want to be fair since he is a friend of mine. I see beat frames getting almost $4500 and perfect frames $8k+. I was thinking about $3500 on this one? Someone with the ability could make it a nice frame, I am not that guy. Let me know what you think a reasonable price for this would be.



So I picked up two ratted out bikes the other day, one has a 54 pan motor and the other a 57. The one with the 57 motor has a butchered frame, with a cut and raked neck, chopped off side car loops, butcherer top motor mount etc. I am trying to figure out what year this frame is, and if it is even an oem frame. There are no markings on the front neck since it has been cut and bondo has been added. Near the seat post to the left you can see UU, the axle plates have XE-6 and a mark and 7 on the other. What has me wondering if this might be a chopped knuckle frame is that the seat post tube is smashed in to fit the pan motor. I tried to take a pic looking down the tube but its too dark, but I can see that it has been smashed in . I also have UU on both of my 47 frames for my EL and UL. I moved a few weeks ago and I can't find my Palmer's book so I am asking for some help here. Is this just a franken frame made up of multiple parts? IS it a knucklehead frame? Is it just a repop shitshow? Thanks
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Last edited by Pete808 on Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pete808
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#2

Post by Pete808 »

here are some better pics with the flash on
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1950Panhead
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#3

Post by 1950Panhead »

XE6 #5 was used in 46 and 47.
Pan motors do not fit in knuckle frames, you have to destroy the frame to make it fit.
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#4

Post by nifty »

IMO it is the remains of a knuckle/big flathead frame.

My bet is motor is not bolted down flat on mounts, because pre 48, frame front mount is higher than 48up
What you have has effectively tilted top of motor towards rear, which is why the seat post was attacked
Also the pre 48 casting/forging at top of seatpost is different, which effectively lowers rear of spine tube.

Nifty
Pete808
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#5

Post by Pete808 »

So far I have found the following casting numbers which makes me think that this in fact was a 47 knuckle frame:

UU on top left of seat post casting
rear motor mount XE 624
front motor mount XE 621
right rear axle plate xe-6
left rear axle plate xe-7

From what I read you need to smash in the seat post down tube and extend it up 2 inches which is clear to see. I took the whole thing apart and cleaned up the casting numbers so I could read everything. I will post pics in a bit.
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#6

Post by Pete808 »

here are the pics of the casting numbers that I found that points to being a 47 frame. Now I have to figure out what the other one is. From the looks of that one it is a late 1953 wishbone frame, there are no horn mounting blocks on the down tubes which has me wondering, but on the top motor mount there is a L3 which is Decmeber 1953?
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Andygears
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#7

Post by Andygears »

So Pete, now that you have it all apart, discovered it’s a butchered knuckle frame, and you’ve got a pile of hacked rusty parts that all need work, what will you do with it?

At least when it was together, it took up less space. And that’s an overwhelming pile of work to make into something nice.

Should have left it together, my opinion.

Andygears
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#8

Post by RooDog »

Andygears wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:31 pm So Pete, now that you have it all apart, discovered it’s a butchered knuckle frame, and you’ve got a pile of hacked rusty parts that all need work, what will you do with it?

At least when it was together, it took up less space. And that’s an overwhelming pile of work to make into something nice.

Should have left it together, my opinion.

Andygears
LOL. That's what the former owner did....
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#9

Post by nifty »

For Pan or Shovel motors you don't have to extend seatpost 2".
Take that knuck/flat frame to a good frame guy, hand over a pile of cash and it will be back to stock.

Nifty
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#10

Post by Andygears »

nifty wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:41 pm For Pan or Shovel motors you don't have to extend seatpost 2".
Take that knuck/flat frame to a good frame guy, hand over a pile of cash and it will be back to stock.

Nifty
Is there a “Good frame guy” in Hawaii? Or eat the time and cost of shipping to the mainland?

Andygears
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#11

Post by Pete808 »

Andygears wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:42 pm
nifty wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:41 pm For Pan or Shovel motors you don't have to extend seatpost 2".
Take that knuck/flat frame to a good frame guy, hand over a pile of cash and it will be back to stock.

Nifty
Is there a “Good frame guy” in Hawaii? Or eat the time and cost of shipping to the mainland?

Andygears
No one here that can do it. Will have to send to the mainland. What can I expect to pay to get restore? $2-3K?
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#12

Post by Pete808 »

Andygears wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:31 pm So Pete, now that you have it all apart, discovered it’s a butchered knuckle frame, and you’ve got a pile of hacked rusty parts that all need work, what will you do with it?

At least when it was together, it took up less space. And that’s an overwhelming pile of work to make into something nice.

Should have left it together, my opinion.

Andygears
The plan was always to keep both motors, the transmission and the 54 frame and the front end that it came with. The rest of the stuff I will clean/inspect and sell to try and recoup $4-5k of the expense. Keeping the things that I need to complete one bike. For now I will put both motors in my living room with my other 52 motor. I sold the spot lamps, seat and the rear stand already on eBay yesterday so I am slowly making progress. I agree that keeping it together would be better for space but I really wanted to take it apart to see what is all there, clean the parts and go through them before I either use them or sell them or trade them. My coworker is interested in the Knuckle frame so we are going to work out a trade if I don't decide to repair it (Which I probably wont). It was a lot of fun to go through, I will most likely lose interest and the parts will sit for a while but I'm ok with that. My other hobby is sports cards, I do the same thing with those where I buy a large lot of vintage cards to look through, sort, sell a couple to offset some cot and then I put them aside for the next lot.
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#13

Post by RooDog »

Getting rid of the frame without doing anything to it is ideal !
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#14

Post by RUBONE »

Pete808 wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 9:36 pm
Andygears wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:42 pm
nifty wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 2:41 pm For Pan or Shovel motors you don't have to extend seatpost 2".
Take that knuck/flat frame to a good frame guy, hand over a pile of cash and it will be back to stock.

Nifty
Is there a “Good frame guy” in Hawaii? Or eat the time and cost of shipping to the mainland?

Andygears
No one here that can do it. Will have to send to the mainland. What can I expect to pay to get restore? $2-3K?
More like $4-5K depending on what all is needed which involves replacing the entire head casting. Here is another cut up one I need to have done, however the neck is perfect except for that bolt stuck in it and it has sidecar loops and footboard tabs. I figure it will cost about 4K to have done.
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Re: Could this be a butchered knucklehead frame?

#15

Post by danpatch »

right axle plats is 1942-1944 Motor mount is revision #3 it could be 1942
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