Nifty's 4 speed re-build for member Hogey
Removed grub screw, used pin-punch to drive shift-fork shaft from right side of main case, both ends of shaft had been sealed with some sort of foul smelling black compound. A piece of shaved off rubber ring came out of left side. Shaft had to be driven all the way out using a length of 3/16’ rod.
- seal shaved & gooped (Small).JPG (45.52 KiB) Viewed 219 times
35630-36 End Plate for counter shaft, was wrongly positioned, purpose is to prevent rotation of countershaft, outside flat goes towards mainshaft and locks against corresponding flat of bearing retainer plate.
- 35630-36 End Plate wrongly positioned (Small).JPG (58.54 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Straightened tabwasher & removed nut at Starter Clutch, used puller to remove Starter Clutch, some sort of foul smelling black compound had been slathered on taper & key.
- gooped up starter clutch b (Small).JPG (37.08 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Removed Starter Gear and cone spring. Cone spring has a slightly overlapping coil at small end, catches slightly when spring compressed fully flat. I will correct overlap catching & reuse spring.
- coil overlap (Small).JPG (44.76 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Mainshaft nut at bearing was visibly loose (all tabs folded). Straightened tabwasher, removed mainshaft nut with fingers. I suspect previous assembler hit 1-2 double gear on with mallet and failed to fully install gear, which later moved in service. One would think that the torquing of nut against bearing would fully seat double gear and bearing on mainshaft. Regardless, it was bad assembly.
Straightened tabwasher at countershaft, removed countershaft nut, removed CS End Plate, used aluminium drift to remove countershaft.
Removed Countershaft Gear and the drilled thrust washer, as removed, washer was 0.101” thick, this is 0.001” thicker than supposed max size made, Hogey’s trans had 0.022” CS gear end float with this washer i.e. the thrust faces of steel top hat bushes in case are also toast.
Removed mainshaft, 0.002" bend
- Hogey old shaft 0.002 bend (Small).JPG (62.23 KiB) Viewed 217 times
35100-36 HOUSING, for mainshaft ballrace, badly dinged up from someone punching out, both flanges distorted i.e. bearing did not seat properly in housing and housing did not seat properly in case. One edge ding scored case when last removed. UNSERVICEABLE
- dings in housing a (Small).JPG (30.97 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- distorted flange (Small).JPG (27.51 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- raised edge ding which scored case (Small).JPG (29.41 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- raised dings inside housing b (Small).JPG (36.98 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Mainshaft ballrace bearing, As removed NO NAME, DOUBLE SHIELDED, both shields dinged up, pic is outside, dings caused during fold-up of locking tabs, ball cage catches on ding when rotated, loose on mainshaft. This bearing was always going to be replaced, but this damage by careless “mechanic” is just negligent.
- dinged shield (Small).JPG (54.94 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Mainshaft 1-2 double gear fit to mainshaft; slide – originally light press (slightly tight at splines) Andrews make 1-2 gear so slide-fit at splines, but large ID is 0.0005” press-fit to corresponding area of mainshaft.
- inside Andrews mainshaft 2nd gear 0.0005 press fit.jpg (Small).JPG (28.71 KiB) Viewed 219 times
A press-fit between 2nd gear and mainshaft is good because when power is applied there is no gap for movement of 1-2 double gear, no movement means 2nd gears stay properly meshed and no “working or fretting” at splines, no working at splines means no working at bearing and tab washer and thus reduced likelihood of nut loosening at bearing.
But with old parts, if not crazy loose, a slide-fit with Loctite will live ok.
Appears that a stock ratio, complete aftermarket internals kit has been installed, many parts marked DI, only one has a part number. My guess is Dixie International, sub-contracted by an unknown oriental manufacturer. Countershaft had rust, sampled a few rollers 0.1245” ø.
- DI 3rd (Small).JPG (38.85 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- DI gears a (Small).JPG (40.02 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- DI gears b (Small).JPG (41.43 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Sprocket seal installed crooked.
- poorly fitted seal a (Small).JPG (36.77 KiB) Viewed 219 times
The end-seal at MDG was installed too deep, thus seal lip crushed against bottom of its recess, this is what caused unusual tightness detected prior to dismantling, this tightness also wore a significant wide groove in mainshaft. Likely this tightness compromised shifting.
- MDG end seal too deep (Small).JPG (38.72 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- Hogey old shaft seal wear (Small).JPG (36.78 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Mainshaft 3rd gear and 3-4 shift-clutch dogs banged up.
- DI 3rd damaged dogs (Small).JPG (50.08 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Hogey’s old & new kicker covers, internal depth, bare gasket face, to face for kicker gear vary by 0.012”
I have checked numerous OE covers, found one OE depth at 0.145”, all others usually 0.150” to 0.151”, I suspect OE spec depth was 0.150”.
With AM covers I have found depth variations from 0.125” to 0.180”.
This dimension affects separation at ratchet teeth tips of Starter Clutch & Starter Gear
- old 0.161 to kick face (Small).JPG (52.45 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- S&S gasket face to kick face 0.172(Small).JPG (45.15 KiB) Viewed 219 times
NOTE: Established 1977, Bailey are a major Taiwanese manufacturer/distributor of repro parts, they supply wholesale to many resellers worldwide. http://www.bailey-co-ltd.com/
This is the third time I have found these steel balls trapped in Bailey kicker gears, 3 out of 3.
- steel shot trapped a (Small).JPG (33.34 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- steel shot trapped b (Small).JPG (41.99 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- steel shot trapped (Small).JPG (38.19 KiB) Viewed 219 times
- steel shot removed.jpg (Small).JPG (16.87 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Just like the others, trapped in the annulus between gear and riveted cam plate, were quantities of approx 0.021” steel balls, Using the tip of a pointed scalpel blade, I was able to pick the balls out. Being as I was able to pick them out, I doubt they were “shot-blasted” in there, and highly likely they would have fallen out in service. Steel shot is not something I want floating around inside freshly rebuilt transmissions, even with magnetic drain plugs. I deduce these steel balls are “shot” originated from a post manufacture, vibratory deburring/surface finishing process. In the tradition of “belt and braces”, just in case I missed a ball, I will run some sealant into annulus, then it can never escape.
With further fettling these Bailey 24T kicker gears can be made to function well, but I would be reluctant to use them on customer kick-only daily rider bikes. However, on Hogey’s 68 stroker with updated starter motor, the kicker will mostly only get used for turning engine to adjust tappets.
Bottom case MOUNTING PADS x 5: ok, SERVICEABLE.
At main case, carefully cleaned & examined floor directly above threaded hole for 5th mount bolt. NO star-crack damage from bottomed-out, over-length bolt, SERVICEABLE.
- no star cracks.jpg (Small).JPG (45.47 KiB) Viewed 218 times
Bottom case 5th mount bolt not supplied
Normal engineering practice MINIMUM thread engagement 1.5 diameters = 0.562”
AS SUPPLIED, Hogey's 5th mount female thread has 0.689” of thread engagement before bolt bottoms out. BOLT MUST NOT BOTTOM OUT IN SERVICE
NOTE: 5th MOUNT BOLT INSTALLED THREAD ENGAGEMENT WITH CASE VARIES DUE TO VARIATIONS IN THICKNESS OF FRAME TAB AND WASHERS USED, TRANSMISSION INSTALLER MUST ENSURE BOLT DOES NOT BOTTOM OUT IN TRANS HOLE, WHILST SIMULTANEOUSLY MAINTAINING SUFFICIENT THREAD ENGAGEMENT IN TRANS AND A DECENT FLAT WASHER AGAINST FRAME SLOT AND A DECENT SPLIT TYPE SPRINGWASHER.
Originally 5th mount bolt was 4323 BOLT, CP, 5th trans mount, 37-70, 3/8” UNC x 1”, real bolt with some unthreaded shank, originally Parkerised, later cad plated, goes into female threaded bronze or steel insert in case (goes through approx .290” thick frame tab plus trans washer, plus split type spring washer. Ensure trans is hard down at 5th pos, may have to shim. Ensure 5th mount bolt has sufficient engagement but does not bottom out and star-crack trans case. Can’t find PN for 5th mount bolt in 41-84 FL parts list, but 2879W is in 71-84 FX book
2879W BOLT 5th trans mount, 71up, (actually modern, fully threaded hex head cap screw), 3/8” UNC x 1”, Hex Head Cap Screw; Grade 5; Zinc plated, commercial fastener, NOT CP
Bottom case STUDS: 4 x 3/8” UNF threads SERVICEABLE, stainless plain nuts only provided.
Bottom mounting stud protrusion 0.995” - 1.100” SERVICEABLE. Hogey 1.033”-1.055”
Bottom case female insert 3/8” UNC threads, SERVICEABLE.
Inner Primary case STUDS, 4 x 3/8” UNF thread SERVICEABLE
Inner Primary stud protrusion: Hogey front 1.069”-1.116”, SERVICEABLE
Inner Primary stud protrusion: Hogey rear 1.579”-1.552” rear 1.500” – 1.562” SERVICEABLE
End cover STUDS 5/16”, all 9 present, UNF threads SERVICEABLE.
Torque-tested all main case studs & bolt 3/8” 30ftlb, all 3/8” good. 9 x 5/16” 15ftlb, all 5/16” good
End stud protrusion Shovel short 0.930” – 1.030”. Hogey .789”-836” Hogey fitted new studs
End stud protrusion long (starter support, 65up FL Batt support; FX brake pedal brkt ; FL pillion peg etc 1.100” - 1.150”. Hogey 1.135” & 1.178”
More to come
Nifty
Instead of bailey kicker gear feel free to fit better gear