VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

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Alex E
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#16

Post by Alex E »

Here's another from the auction site.

Part of The description, "Lower end is WR as you can see...."
s-l400(22).jpg
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#17

Post by RUBONE »

Alex E wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:01 pm Here's another from the auction site.

Part of The description, "Lower end is WR as you can see...."

s-l400(22).jpg
Perhaps you could add a link to the site.
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#18

Post by Alex E »

It's currently on eBay listed as "1949 Harley other" with a $18 thousand buy it now price. Is a link allowed?
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#19

Post by droptopford »

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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#20

Post by Hogey »

That VIN looks bad? Also RHS tank shift?
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#21

Post by RUBONE »

Hogey wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:00 am That VIN looks bad? Also RHS tank shift?
The bike looks suspiciously like one I knew in the late 70s. It belonged to a guy who was the former mechanic for a dealer in Lubbock TX. It was a WR engined WL and disappeared in the early '80s when the owner died. I bought some stuff from him over the years, some WR parts, some KH parts and always Knuckle parts. He was a great guy. Even though the numbers are bad that was common with race bikes that blew up and other cases were stamped with the numbers. The front mag is interesting since you CANNOT add one to a stock engine, it has to have the right timing gears and cover. The guy I suspected as purchasing it (another Texas guy) most likely stripped the other race parts off. However, I don't see anywhere near that price in the pile... :mrgreen:
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#22

Post by kitabel »

Those cylinders look like the common G, WL, etc. 120-36/-361.
He must have some of the right parts to front-drive the mag (the generator runs at the wrong speed).
More stuff on my page here: http://victorylibrary.com/tech/WR-mag.htm
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#23

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Alex E wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:19 pm Eric,
To me this 49 number does not look factory correct for the following reasons.

The numbers are not uniform or evenly spaced across the number boss nor do they make full use of the boss. The 6 is right against the L then a big space followed by three numbers that are crooked.
Also, numbers are not stamped in a straight line but follow the curvature of the case at the bottom of the number boss.

Add that all up and it looks very wrong to me but I stand corrected by the experts here.

Thanks for replying. Is some of your info from Bruce Palmer’s book(s)?

The partial lack of uniformity and the uneven spacing of some characters aren’t a problem for me. I realise those things are a concern for a lot of people, including Palmer, but I’ve seen plenty of authentic-looking SNs done like that. Judging by my photo examples there seems to have been no directive at the factory regarding uniformity or spacing, at least not in those days. Sometimes the SNs are uniform and sometimes they aren’t. Sometimes the characters are evenly spaced but sometimes not. And on occasion we see a few crooked characters but they don’t necessarily suggest something untoward.

As you stated, the 6 is right against the L but I find nothing wrong with that. Here’s a similar example, with the 3 and L very close to each other. Also in this photo most characters follow the curvature of the case and it’s something I’ve seen with some other 49 Pans. For whatever reason, many 49 Pan SNs were stamped very low on the boss and I know a few people who think all 49s were done in that fashion. But they weren’t. Some were stamped about halfway up the boss and some were stamped even higher. BTW, if you’d like the unedited version of any photos I post I can send them via email if you wish.


49 FL 3+++.jpg
49 FL 3+++.jpg (40.78 KiB) Viewed 704 times

In the next example two characters are even closer. Also notice the big space between the 5 and 0 and they don’t line up with each other either but I see nothing wrong with that.


50 WL 1+++.jpg
50 WL 1+++.jpg (79.65 KiB) Viewed 704 times

Here’s another photo of some characters not lining up with each other.


48 EL 9+++.jpg
48 EL 9+++.jpg (34.67 KiB) Viewed 704 times

And another example. Also notice that although the first and last characters are near the ends of the boss it means there are now some big spaces, including one in the sequence portion just like the big space in the sequence portion of the 49 you posted. Anyone could add a number there. And/or they could change FL to FLH.


63 FL 3+++.jpg
63 FL 3+++.jpg (19.81 KiB) Viewed 704 times

Another post to follow.
Eric
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#24

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Next is another SN where an extra letter could be added but this time there is slightly more room. I have photos of several other 56FLs like this where the three sections are done with a gap between them. Any of them could be changed to FLE or FLH.


56 FL 3+++.jpg
56 FL 3+++.jpg (27.45 KiB) Viewed 704 times


This Flathead SN could be altered as well. The whole boss was used but it wasn’t done to stop people from adding another character. In fact one of the spaces created would make it easy to turn this U into a UL.


46 U 1+++.jpg
46 U 1+++.jpg (38.82 KiB) Viewed 704 times


The last character however wasn’t always very close to the end of the boss, as demonstrated by some of the other photos I posted, and as shown by the 49 you posted. Here’s another example.


49 FL 7+++.jpg
49 FL 7+++.jpg (29.1 KiB) Viewed 704 times


But not making full use of the boss wasn’t an issue for H-D and again there appears to have been no directive regarding the situation. Here’s a factory photo of a prototype 50 and you’ll see the whole boss wasn’t used and there is enough room at the end to add at least one more character.
Eric


50 EL 1001.jpg
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Alex E
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#25

Post by Alex E »

Eric,
Thank you for the examples and explanations. I learned!
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#26

Post by flatheadDave »

Here’s a good one on Instagram. “What you see is what you get. No title. 12k”
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#27

Post by RooDog »

Don't need no stinkin' title.
No numbers, and really not much else of any value, eh?
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Re: VIN numbers. (what are people thinking?)

#28

Post by PabloDogboy »

Hi, anyone give me a suggestion regards motor numbers im building a knuckle motor and due to circumstance i have to use an aftermarket left side case (vtwin) thats another story , anyway ive tried to find a title for sale to suite the year with no luck ,and i dont really want to pick number out of thin air, even if i did as im not in the U.S would this cause issues i wouldnt want to piss anyone off , or do i make up a number that is higher than the original production numbers, the project is going to be a 60s style chopper so not an original restoration bike
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