68 flh trans rebuild

A good trans Man in OZ

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Hogey
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#31

Post by Hogey »

Good read RD. Do you think i should run with the double metal shields, as the above says non removable or get the double rubber and leave out gear side rubber to let the oil lube the bearing. HD 9020 when goggled shows metal shield. The Andrews gear set complete and main Shaft plus Jims rebuild kit Plus Rays spacer with oring cost big $ to OZ so i dont want a bearing failure. :?:
RooDog
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#32

Post by RooDog »

Hogey
I haven't had one of those bearings in hand so far as I can remember. The last 4-speed tranny I built was over 20 years ago. I have an opinion, but that ain't really worth much, I suggest you ask Mongrel Jim. He's the hands on guy for recent 4-speed building. He probably will have some insight into the matter.
DSC01844.JPG
This is as deep as I dove into BroJon's neglected tranny back a few years ago. As you see there is a lot of trash present, but also the bearing retaining plate covers most of the bearing that a shield would protect, the other side is in the gear box, maybe a shield on that side would be a good idea, oil will still get to the balls, and we all need well oiled balls....
....RD.....
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Hogey
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#33

Post by Hogey »

Thanks Roo! I did another search and the pitures show metal shields. Hope fully some one will come up with the good dope on the bearing. If not maybe i start a new post.
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#34

Post by Raytag »

In the past open bearing were smaller in width than shielded/sealed ones.
These times are gone.
It`s a proven fact that sealed/closed bearings achieve longer maintenance intervalls than open bearings.

Shielded + sealed bearings are filled with grease they need for their estimated lifetime.
True, shielded run with less resistance compared to sealed bearings considering their max durable speed
and rubber sealed bearings cannot be used anywhere if unfavourable environment.

My .02
No matter what you`re using (open/shielded/sealed) it is important to get a quality product.
Chingware usually don`t carry a manufactures name.
And yes I see them failing after a very short time span
To me this is epedemic.
People tend to order with a reputable shop but order a no name bearing
A quality product costs you 5,6,7 or 8x more and might not be instantly available.

Ray

BTW I installed a sealed bearing in my trans
nifty
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#35

Post by nifty »

My 2c
I've used sealed C3 FAG, SKF, NSK, KOYO, NACHI etc real bearings in 4speeds and non HD gearboxes for many years.
As do many modern OE manufacturers
They last longer because they don't get contaminated by shrapnel shed from kicker and shift clutches/dogs
And always use a magnetic drain plug to reduce shrapnel getting to all rollers and bushes
Never pressure wash your old motorcycle
Also be aware that knockoff bearing makers/resellers have been making imitation name brand packaging
A while back KOYO USA (owners of Torrington) and other "name" brands started using holograms on packaging to make life harder for the fakers.
No surprise that Alibaba openly advertise their fake packaging custom printed with what ever you want on it
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 86939.html

Of Course one can also get the hologram labels made too.
https://www.labelsandlabeling.com/opini ... ortunities

Nifty
Mongrel505558
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#36

Post by Mongrel505558 »

I used an Italian made SKF in my pan transmission rebuild. I have a couple of new no-name bearings that cost about $30 hanging around. I've seen these selling for as low as $10, but I wouldn't even use one of those in my garage door. When I took apart my '68 4-speed, the Federal US-made bearing in there was better than the new ones I have so I cleaned it up and put it back in. I wish I could point you to the best selection out there now, but I don't know what it is. I've seen double-shielded, one side shielded, open, and sealed. To me a singe-shield on the kicker side makes sense because it will keep crap from the kicker side out and let gear oil from the gearbox in.

Also, Nifty is really the guy who has been deep-diving into 4-speeds, and I'm sure there are others. I had a crash-course over the last couple of years rebuilding three 4-speed boxes. It started when the bearing in question in my panhead box ate itself - luckily right down the street from my house.
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#37

Post by RooDog »

The OE bearing shows to be shielded .
HD # 9020, Industry # 6305ZZ, is double shielded....
V-Tedd offers two bearings with that OE #, one is half the price of the other. Go figure.... 12-0307, & 12-9937.....
$7.75 on Amazon....
Best bet is to walk into your local bearing supplier's shop and get hands on before buying....
....RooDog....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_(bearing)
Hogey
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#38

Post by Hogey »

I have a japan made koyo double metal shield.
I would remove shield on gear set side but after RDs artical it says metal shield are unremovable.
Thank for everyones input.
Hogey
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#39

Post by Hogey »

Hogey wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:04 am I have a japan made koyo double metal shield.
I would remove shield on gear set side but after RDs artical it says metal shield are unremovable.
Thank for everyones input.
Niffty with the MDG race in trany do you see many that need lapping i have 4 different size roller packs. Genuine HD stock size and 3 different OS Sonax kits
nifty
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#40

Post by nifty »

Hogey wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:10 am
Hogey wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:04 am I have a japan made koyo double metal shield.
I would remove shield on gear set side but after RDs artical it says metal shield are unremovable.
Thank for everyones input.
Niffty with the MDG race in trany do you see many that need lapping i have 4 different size roller packs. Genuine HD stock size and 3 different OS Sonax kits
Hogey,

IMHO
All case races, used or new, require line-lapping, new races are often out of round when installed, used races, even if look perfect will be microscopically worn at roller tracks, no guarantee that replacement rollers exactly same length at contact point. Ergo new rollers may only touch at either both tips, or one tip on high ridge and other in valley, regardless = reduced service life.

I have measured many rollers and found a significant number to be way out of spec, for example, new std actually 0.123", yeah 0.002" undersize!
Many packs of oversize rollers are also out of spec, usually less than spec/advertised OD.
Also common to find new sealed roller packs actually have mixed OD rollers.
Which is why I line-lap and measure every roller, which takes a long time and is mind numbingly boring, but just 1 roller bigger than the rest will ruin way more than your day.

Of course people have been throwing H-D trannies together for years and some will violently object to my measurement based opinions.
They are only opinions, its your call.

Nifty
Mongrel505558
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#41

Post by Mongrel505558 »

I have found the same thing with undersized "standard" rollers measuring .1235". These were apparently the original ones and the same ones used for the countershaft. Measured every one. If you're going to line lap the race you might as well take the extra time to get all the rollers right.
RooDog
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#42

Post by RooDog »

nifty wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:18 am
Hogey wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:10 am
Hogey wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:04 am I have a japan made koyo double metal shield.
I would remove shield on gear set side but after RDs artical it says metal shield are unremovable.
Thank for everyones input.
Niffty with the MDG race in trany do you see many that need lapping i have 4 different size roller packs. Genuine HD stock size and 3 different OS Sonax kits
Hogey,

IMHO
All case races, used or new, require line-lapping, new races are often out of round when installed, used races, even if look perfect will be microscopically worn at roller tracks, no guarantee that replacement rollers exactly same length at contact point. Ergo new rollers may only touch at either both tips, or one tip on high ridge and other in valley, regardless = reduced service life.

I have measured many rollers and found a significant number to be way out of spec, for example, new std actually 0.123", yeah 0.002" undersize!
Many packs of oversize rollers are also out of spec, usually less than spec/advertised OD.
Also common to find new sealed roller packs actually have mixed OD rollers.
Which is why I line-lap and measure every roller, which takes a long time and is mind numbingly boring, but just 1 roller bigger than the rest will ruin way more than your day.

Of course people have been throwing H-D trannies together for years and some will violently object to my measurement based opinions.
They are only opinions, its your call.

Nifty
Working in a dealership where the rollers are in bulk, and the parts guys idiots, I found it wise to measure each and every roller to get a matched set. Also I would not trust even a sealed package of rollers. Yes it's dull and boring work, but it beats the negative results should there be an un-discovered turd in the soup.....
....RooDog....
Hogey
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Re: 68 flh trans rebuild

#43

Post by Hogey »

Point taken i have a mic. Thanks again. I will out source the lapping as dont have one. Niffty its a shame we live so far away.
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