Manifold rubber bands discussion study

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Buddhahoodvatoloco
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#16

Post by Buddhahoodvatoloco »

Clamps
VOSS Clamps.
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#17

Post by nifty »

Buddhahoodvatoloco wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:08 pm Clamps
VOSS Clamps.
Have you actually tried to use these Voss clamps on a Shovel?
I see the Voss clamps have a floating "shoe" which is wider & deeper than the clamp band, As do Mikalor, Tridon heavy duty and Norma heavy duty. clamps.
EDIT: With o-rings, the width of Mikalor shoe fouls Shovel Y manifold & heads and affects manifold alignment. Presumably same problem with other "shoe" type clamps.
Voss 2" ID with shoe ok on Pan o-ring T manifolds, and possibly Mikalor etc.
Voss 2-1/4" ID with shoe ok on Shovel bands, and possibly Mikalor etc.
Need bigger again clamps with DIY hose bands on Shovel, see below.

Nifty
Last edited by nifty on Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#18

Post by guppymech »

nifty wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:09 pm
Buddhahoodvatoloco wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:08 pm Clamps
VOSS Clamps.
Have you actually tried to use these Voss clamps on a Shovel?
I see the Voss clamps have a floating "shoe" which is wider & deeper than the clamp band, As do Mikalor clamps.
The width of Mikalor shoe fouls Shovel Y manifold & heads and affects manifold alignment.
Voss & Mikalor may be ok on Pan T manifolds

Nifty
I've got Voss clamps on my '84 with a S&S Super E intake manifold and they fit fine with stock bands. The Voss clamps I have don't fit over the homemade bands I mentioned earlier that have a .205 thick wall. Voss makes band clamps that are used on Aircraft also.
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#19

Post by nifty »

guppymech wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:59 am
nifty wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:09 pm
Buddhahoodvatoloco wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:08 pm Clamps
VOSS Clamps.
Have you actually tried to use these Voss clamps on a Shovel?
I see the Voss clamps have a floating "shoe" which is wider & deeper than the clamp band, As do Mikalor clamps.
The width of Mikalor shoe fouls Shovel Y manifold & heads and affects manifold alignment.
Voss & Mikalor may be ok on Pan T manifolds

Nifty
I've got Voss clamps on my '84 with a S&S Super E intake manifold and they fit fine with stock bands. The Voss clamps I have don't fit over the homemade bands I mentioned earlier that have a .205 thick wall. Voss makes band clamps that are used on Aircraft also.
Thank you, good to know, to reduce confusion I have edited my clamp post
Nifty
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#20

Post by Hogey »

nifty wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:40 pm
Excalibur wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:13 am Are the rubbers Viton? NBR?
What clamps are best, tightness and rechecking tightness?
What works, what don't?
Could I cut my own hose from hose stock?
Thanks for any thoughts.
Viton is good*, easy to get Viton o-rings, on Shovels I use metric Viton o-rings, slightly larger section. Not so easy to get Viton bands. *unless you burn with torch and release hydroflouric acid.
Many no-name orings sold for H-D manifolds are at best Nitrile/NBR, many are crap pretending to be fit for purpose. Not all Viton o-rings are brown, many are black, you have to trust your supplier, I wouldn't trust alibaba or similar.

For later Shovels, the rubber bands can be good & bad, some last years, some only months. I would tend to trust name brands like S&S, James etc
Material must be able to handle heat and fuel and remain supple, without cracking.
You can cut your own bands, but I've never found an industrial hose which ticked all the heat fuel and stock OD boxes, you might get lucky.

Silicone coolant/turbo hose from auto shops works, but OD is bigger, but with 4 narrow worm drive clamps gets the job done. Do not over-tighten, resist temptation to re-tighten.

Trial fit without clamps or bands/orings, carb supports must hold carb & manifold in alignment with heads. The seals and clamps should play no part in alignment. Don't overtighten clamps

T-bolt stainless clamps such as in Mongrel pic are good if alignment good and not over-tightened. In US these clamps available from industrial suppliers, not so in OZ, you may get lucky in NZ, or buy from S&S etc (you say you already have S&S clamps).
Mikalor and clone T-bolt clamps have a floating shoe which is wider than the desired 3/4" and shoe fouls heads & manifolds.

Seeing as you have band type heads, manifold & clamps, just buy decent bands.
If you buy cheap bands, buy spares coz you will likely need them soon.

Nifty
Nifty can you post the size of the metric viton orings or part number. Also do you feel they seal better
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#21

Post by nifty »

Hogey
IMO Viton o-rings 43mm x 5mm are best fuel & heat resistant material & being slightly larger section provide improved fit/sealing
Nifty
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#22

Post by Hogey »

Thanks Niffty have a good one
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#23

Post by Hogey »

Last ? Niffty are you measuring 53 id or od? Forgot ID is how to measure.58 mm OD
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#24

Post by 80Flh »

Nifty, Mongrel and Roodog:
When I first started getting my FLH80 Shovel running I found that my o-ring rubbers were shot.
I grabbed a pair at $10 from River City Cycle out of St. Louis. Recently learned from them and watched the Ultima shovelheads manufactured in St. Louis Video good entertainment by the way. The o-rings were black in color and have not cause me any issues other than rolling them on took a bit of fun. No intake leaks that I am aware of and bike starts easily after getting my ejector nozzle slot aimed right, lol. One of the tricks of the trade is buying 10 packs as almost as much as a pair of one item or another.
James has the viton orange/red or the black and they don't communicate very well. Thought I'd ask you if today's pump gas requires anything special as long as I use Gen. HD black o-rings in 10 pack or the James Brand. Can not seem to find the James orange viton other than in a pair. Also how often do you find yourself changing these if using name brand o-rings. Funny even the genuine HD ten pack says made in China. James says USA made. Appreciate your well earned knowledge with old iron.
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#25

Post by RooDog »

A 1980 FL should have flat band style intake manifold connectors not O-rings... 1978-85.
Tedd's V-Twin has the flat band seals in red silicone rubber, 10 pk, # 14-0924
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#26

Post by 80Flh »

Thanks Roodog,
I have learned what should have been on originally you are correct flat style. This Vin confirmed by HD Arcives was built February 1980 by AMF so I know they did some weird parts using up this and that so it is a mystery to me as I have the o ring headsxand $ & $ o ring manifold.
So I need the o rings probably just go James black Nitrile.
Appreciate it. Dave
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#27

Post by RooDog »

I have found the flat band manifold couplers to be troublesome and prefer the O-rings for relative ease of installation....
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#28

Post by Mongrel505558 »

RooDog wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:40 pm I have found the flat band manifold couplers to be troublesome and prefer the O-rings for relative ease of installation....
O-ring seals are definitely easier to install.
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#29

Post by nifty »

80Flh wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:28 pm Thanks Roodog,
I have learned what should have been on originally you are correct flat style. This Vin confirmed by HD Arcives was built February 1980 by AMF so I know they did some weird parts using up this and that so it is a mystery to me as I have the o ring headsxand $ & $ o ring manifold.
So I need the o rings probably just go James black Nitrile.
Appreciate it. Dave
Viton o-rings from an industrial supplier will last longer
Nifty
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Re: Manifold rubber bands discussion study

#30

Post by RooDog »

80Flh wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2023 11:28 pm Thanks Roodog,
I have learned what should have been on originally you are correct flat style. This Vin confirmed by HD Arcives was built February 1980 by AMF so I know they did some weird parts using up this and that so it is a mystery to me as I have the o ring headsxand $ & $ o ring manifold.
So I need the o rings probably just go James black Nitrile.
Appreciate it. Dave
But I can't help but wonder if someone hasn't swapped out the heads for pre '78 O-ring style, or maybe even AM heads. I'm running $%$ heads on my '68, should have gotten them with dual plugs, so I could have the option of compression releases....
....RooDog....
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