New starting routine

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RooDog
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Re: New starting routine

#16

Post by RooDog »

Even with electric start, electronic ignition, and modern carburetors with accelerator pumps, starting my bikes is not predictable. Now, the Panny I had with a Bendix was, and I usually didn't even use the choke most of the time. WTF? These are strange animals we deal with....
....RooDog....
dontsink
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Re: New starting routine

#17

Post by dontsink »

Sometimes mine behave like a stubborn horse. It doesn't start the way as it does the day before. Then I kick the old iron till it will. You have to tell him who's the master. Even if you are exhausted to the point where you want to give up. When you do, you're lost :-)
FL54
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Re: New starting routine

#18

Post by FL54 »

RooDog wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:52 pm Even with electric start, electronic ignition, and modern carburetors with accelerator pumps, starting my bikes is not predictable. Now, the Panny I had with a Bendix was, and I usually didn't even use the choke most of the time. WTF? These are strange animals we deal with....
....RooDog....
Agreed. I have several flatside Shovels that are all basically the same bike. They all have their individual idiosyncrasies.
awander
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Re: New starting routine

#19

Post by awander »

Well, I spoke too soon when I said I had it. It worked for a few days, then it got really wonky-for the last month or two, there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to how and when I could start the bike-except that it would always take 20-30 kicks. It ran great once started.

Last night, I got to thinking that I hadn't checked the carburetor-to-manifold bolts, or the clamps over the manifold O-rings.

So I did that, and found they were not falling out, but certainly not what I would call tight.

Started it 3 times today in less than 5 kicks each time. Fingers crossed.
Mongrel505558
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Re: New starting routine

#20

Post by Mongrel505558 »

I'm getting to know the kick starting technique for my '68 slabside. It has electric start, but I figure if I can dial it in to kick start easily then it's in a good state of tune. It has a Bendix so it has an accelerator pump. Basically one or two squirts and one or two primer kicks. Turn on the ignition and give it a boot and it starts right up. It's the few times it doesn't that I have to figure out the routine for. I'm finding the choke on my Bendix is unnecessary, too. The one time I had it half choked (yesterday) and didn't realize it, it fouled the plugs and died around the corner from my house and I had to push it home. "New" used plugs this morning and I rode about 20 fun miles.
My pan (with a Super B - no accel pump) has always been one kick with enrichener on and ignition off, and one kick with enrichener off and ignition on and it starts. Fairly fresh top ends on both bikes and I bubble-tested the manifolds when installing both, so at least that variable is taken out of the equation.
nifty
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Re: New starting routine

#21

Post by nifty »

Yep, good tuning tip Jim, if it starts easy with kicker, OE electric start and possibly battery will also work better and last longer. Slightly more work with modern ignitions, have to flick a few switches on module for kicker mode (eliminates dead cranking revs of ES mode) and flick back again when you're done tuning, but no biggie.
Nifty
Last edited by nifty on Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
awander
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Re: New starting routine

#22

Post by awander »

It's funny that I didn't think to check the manifold and carburetor for leaks.

Where's Cotten when you need him to remind you about air leaks? :(
Little Stan
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Re: New starting routine

#23

Post by Little Stan »

I can let my old 58FL Pan set for weeks without a tickle charger and it'll start right up usually on the second or third kick with the switch on. I'm running stock 74 with FLH pistons, FLH cam, M74b and EB2000 ignition. Once hot it'll go on the second kick. When its luke warm it gives trouble. This happened a few months ago with a large crowd watching! I kicked and kicked when it would almost start but not. Finally got it going and I had forgotten to turn the gas on, had to kick another 20 times! Then again, I've owned this same motor (been in several configurations of frames and styling) since 1974. I'm almost 70 but I'm thinking its time to replace the manifold O rings.

When I used to run points it would start on the first kick but with the electronic ignition its now the second kick. Any thoughts?

Both the bike and me have our senior moments.

-little stan
FL54
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Re: New starting routine

#24

Post by FL54 »

Not sure why, maybe one of the experts will chime in but I’ve experienced similar situations. Cold start, one or two kicks. Hot start (gas stop) one kick. It’s the one hour stop that gives the most problems.
Mongrel505558
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Re: New starting routine

#25

Post by Mongrel505558 »

Yeah, the start that is somewhere between the cold start and the hot start can be a problem for me. I usually turn on the ignition and give it a boot. If it doesn't start right up then I'll shut of ignition and wait maybe 10 seconds and try again. Sometimes kicking it with the throttle wide open and the ignition off clears out a too rich condition. Then try again. This is when the number of kicks it takes is directly proportional to the number of people watching. I like a slightly high idle. It doesn't sound as cool to some as the really low rpm "po-ta-to-po-ta-to" loping idle, but I want oil pumping through my motor - especially when sitting at a stop light on a 95 degree day. For cold starts my Super B likes to have the throttle open slightly more than the running temperature idle. It's hard to hold the throttle grip in just the right place when kicking, so I changed the idle speed screw to a longer screw with a knurled brass knob on it. I tweak it maybe 10-15 degrees in to raise the idle setting and usually after a mile or two I can reach down on the fly and back the screw down.
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Super B Idle Speed Screw.jpg
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Little Stan
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Re: New starting routine

#26

Post by Little Stan »

Right on! Why is when a crowd is watching it wont start? After this last disappointment in starting in front of a crowd I was advised to next time park it behind a dumpster!

-little stan
Mongrel505558
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Re: New starting routine

#27

Post by Mongrel505558 »

Little Stan wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:40 pm Right on! Why is when a crowd is watching it wont start? After this last disappointment in starting in front of a crowd I was advised to next time park it behind a dumpster!

-little stan
Then it should start right up.
RooDog
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Re: New starting routine

#28

Post by RooDog »

Mongrel505558 wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:02 pm
Little Stan wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:40 pm Right on! Why is when a crowd is watching it wont start? After this last disappointment in starting in front of a crowd I was advised to next time park it behind a dumpster!

-little stan
Then it should start right up.
Bad idea.
Some body might take it for discarded trash that wouldn't fit into the dumpster, and carry it off to sell to MacIV Motors....
I know I would love to find a fine old Harley behind a dumpster, eh?
Years ago it was common to cruise by the local dealership on a Sunday afternoon to dumpster dive their discards....
....RooDog....
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Re: New starting routine

#29

Post by PanPal »

When I’ve run into hard starting issues I’ve had a person standing there watching push me and pop start it. Parking on a hill helps too when your riding with friends that all have E starters. This past summer, I had a guy walk over to my buddy and I at a restaurant we were eating at. He came from a Harley dealer next door. He bought a used bike that day. He had come back after they closed to ride his bike home. The battery was dead, so I pop started it and brought it back up to him. After a minute of idling, it wouldn’t take any throttle. So I started over and this time pushed the starter button while I pop started it and he was good to go. Poor guy hadn’t ridden in a while and didn’t bring clear glasses to ride in the dark. We ended up giving him some clears and escorting him to his exit to make sure he was going to make it.
Mongrel505558
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Re: New starting routine

#30

Post by Mongrel505558 »

I never had much luck pop-starting a Big Twin. Pop the clutch while in second gear and I'd get a chirp out of the back tire and a sudden stop. Guess I wasn't going fast enough.
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