Rear brake woes

[chop1543]

41596-58 is the part # for the large brake plate spacer for '58-'62 rear hydraulic brakes. Goes between the brake plate and the inside of the swingarm. Does anyone have one of these on hand that could tell me what length that part is supposed to be? I know it's 1.375" OD and 1" ID. The brake plate and the swingarm are both repop, but I find it hard to believe that they could have been made so poorly that the brake plate "cocks" when I tighten the large nut that holds the axle sleeve on. As a result, the axle binds when I try to push it through. And speaking of the axle, Palmer states that the early swingarm axle is 11.5" long, but doesn't say where it's measured from. Is it overall including the hex, or is it from under the hex to the other end? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, the distance from the face of the brake plate to the beginning of the 2 flats on the axle spacer is approximately 1.100". Doesn't make sense, because that would mean that the mentioned big spacer would have to be at least that dimension because the flats on the axle sleeve only go as far as the inside of the swingarm. If I make a spacer that long, then the block that is the anchor stud has a gigantic gap in it where it's supposed to sit against the swingarm. Have I just got a mixture of wrong parts? Wondering if the rigid frame and swingarm frame axle sleeves are different.

[hdrl1935]

The spacer I have is approx 1.125" long.

Edit: stock is 1.035"

[chop1543]

Many thanks....Makes sense...the one that came out of this wreck was only 1.04". I made another at 1.05", and obviously that is also too short. Now the problem is going to be figuring out why the anchor block at the bottom is so far away from the swingarm. The repop brake plate came with the block, so I'm guessing that is the correct one for early juice brake, and not the later one. I'll have to find an early duo-glide somewhere and see if I can hash out the differences by looking at one that's together.

[RUBONE]

You cannot interchange the brake plates as the early one sits inside the drum and the later sits over the end of the drum, so no way to mix them up. The right side axle spacer is not the same as a rigid type and you cannot mix them up as they are different in appearance. The rigid one has a tall center rib, the swingarm type is smooth all the way across after the flange. Be sure you do not have a Sportster type, they have a large flange on each end.
If the nut is causing your brake assembly to cock you may have a bent swingarm, a common issue.
You do have the correct hub, right, a star hub with rollers?

[RooDog]

I have this one for sale....
PM me for a deal....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144658502855

[Andygears]

I have this one for sale....
PM me for a deal....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144658502855

Roo I think that spacer is for the later mid-star hub.

When fitting my ‘63-‘66 brake into a rigid frame, a lot of custom stuff, thank goodness for my little harbor freight lathe, I found at one point that the flats were uneven on the large brake spacer where it went thru the frame and when tightened would cock the backing plate. I remember I milled the flats slightly longer, the thing is, you can’t see the flats against the inside of the frame under the spacer washer.
Are you putting this brake/swingarm combo together for the first time or is it a stock reassembly?

Andygears

[hdrl1935]

Looks like everything on the internet says the left side spacer is 1.035". Sorry for the inaccurate info. I meas thr the slot in the swingarm.

[chop1543]

You cannot interchange the brake plates as the early one sits inside the drum and the later sits over the end of the drum, so no way to mix them up. The right side axle spacer is not the same as a rigid type and you cannot mix them up as they are different in appearance. The rigid one has a tall center rib, the swingarm type is smooth all the way across after the flange. Be sure you do not have a Sportster type, they have a large flange on each end.
If the nut is causing your brake assembly to cock you may have a bent swingarm, a common issue.
You do have the correct hub, right, a star hub with rollers?

Yes, the hub is a star hub, but I haven't even gotten that far yet. Right now all I'm doing is mounting the brake plate to the left side of the swingarm. The drum is a copy of the early '58. It's stamped and has a dust ring. The brake plate is also repop, and it is the early juice brake type, looks like a rigid one on the edge, fits inside the dust ring on the drum. Lemme see if I can post pics. I've tried following the instructions for picture posting here but haven't had any luck. If I can't, I might go to the H-D forums site or the AMCA site and see if I can post photos. BTW, the swingarm is new repop. I'm guessing it can't be bent already. I assumed the old one was bent because when I first started disassembly, the rear tire was leaning over about an inch to the right when viewing from the back of the bike. Now I'm not so sure. Perhaps wrong parts were used to assemble the brake stuff.

[Andygears]

Yes, pictures would help, maybe Panhead can reduce them.

As I recall, it’s been a while, I first fit the backing plate to the frame and got it square, then put the drum on and made sure it lined up with the transmission sprocket, I think I had to change or thin the big spacer to get the lineup. Then with the wheel on the drum I made the right side spacer from another axle sleeve. Another thing I found was, my drum did not seat all the way into the wheel on the dowels causing a wobble between the drum and wheel. Cleaning up the chrome drum dowels and trying different rotation spots got the sprocket & wheel running true.

When I got my bike, it had the 63/66 brake on it but the axle could not be tightened or everything would bind up. In preparation to fix that, I collected most of a 58/62 brake and any other swap meet parts that I thought useful. With the frame on a table, no rear fender yet and the trans bolted in, I fit it all in and it works correctly. Getting things set up so multiple assembly, disassembly can be done easily can help.

Andygears

[chop1543]

Yes, pictures would help, maybe Panhead can reduce them.

As I recall, it’s been a while, I first fit the backing plate to the frame and got it square, then put the drum on and made sure it lined up with the transmission sprocket, I think I had to change or thin the big spacer to get the lineup. Then with the wheel on the drum I made the right side spacer from another axle sleeve. Another thing I found was, my drum did not seat all the way into the wheel on the dowels causing a wobble between the drum and wheel. Cleaning up the chrome drum dowels and trying different rotation spots got the sprocket & wheel running true.

When I got my bike, it had the 63/66 brake on it but the axle could not be tightened or everything would bind up. In preparation to fix that, I collected most of a 58/62 brake and any other swap meet parts that I thought useful. With the frame on a table, no rear fender yet and the trans bolted in, I fit it all in and it works correctly. Getting things set up so multiple assembly, disassembly can be done easily can help.

Andygears

I'm pretty set up for assembly/disassembly. All I have right now is the frame on the table with the swingarm attached. Just as a curiosity, Palmer states that there are 2 different sets of shoes for '58-'62. The ones for the cast drum he says are 1-5/16" wide and are riveted on, and the ones for the pressed drum are narrower and bonded on. But he neglects to give a width dimension. The ones I took out of this wreck are just under 1.312" and they are riveted on, so I know they're not the '63-66 flavor. This is really getting to be an exercise in futility! BTW, I think the repop backing plate is too thin. I have an original that I can't use because the brake cam adjusters are frozen and it is obviously bent, but I substituted it for the repop, and lo and behold, now the big spacer is long enough to cover the 2 flats on the axle spacer. May have to make a thin spacer and put it between the shoulder on axle spacer and the inside of the brake plate.

[chop1543]

You cannot interchange the brake plates as the early one sits inside the drum and the later sits over the end of the drum, so no way to mix them up. The right side axle spacer is not the same as a rigid type and you cannot mix them up as they are different in appearance. The rigid one has a tall center rib, the swingarm type is smooth all the way across after the flange. Be sure you do not have a Sportster type, they have a large flange on each end.
If the nut is causing your brake assembly to cock you may have a bent swingarm, a common issue.
You do have the correct hub, right, a star hub with rollers?

I neglected to mention that the axle sleeve I'm talking about is the one that goes through the brake plate, not the spacer on the right side.