Paugho 45 build

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nanonevol
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#31

Post by nanonevol »

I'll have to do some 'sperimenting.
Mongrel505558
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#32

Post by Mongrel505558 »

I really like that bike. It's fun building something with no constraints other than mechanical functionality. For example; I like your angle iron "mousetrap eliminator". Things like that make it unique. I once built a Triumph bobber with an Amen "Savior" bolt-on plunger tail, Norton, BSA, Chevy, Sportster, etc., parts, and a lot of cutting, drilling, filing, painting, etc. Whatever it took to make it work reliably (and look cool).

Jim
nanonevol
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#33

Post by nanonevol »

Can someone suggest what brake I can use here? Its an 11.5" rotor.
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#34

Post by RooDog »

I did it like this back in 1973 when the rear disc brake first came out.....
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nanonevol
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#35

Post by nanonevol »

That’s cool. So it mounts to the axle, obviously, but is there a brake “ stay” on yours?
My frame has that tab, which I actually just noticed, so I’m thinking I need a brake that utilizes it.
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#36

Post by RooDog »

There is a plate welded to the frame behind the tool box, with a slot to allow for for axle adjustment in it. The 1973 boomerang caliper bracket has a stud that rests in the slot. The caliper hangs from the back to clear the fender/sissy bar upright.
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#37

Post by PanPal »

If it works, great. I have had nothing but troubles with those shovel head calipers. Look at using a softail 4 piston caliper if possible. Once it’s centered on the disc it works a lot better in my humble opinion.
nanonevol
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#38

Post by nanonevol »

Would the Softtail 4 piston caliper need any extra welding for my frame?
I guess what I'm really asking is what brake might use the brake stay already on my Paugho frame.
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#39

Post by PanPal »

You would need to weld a tab on or fabricate a stop that fits a slot in the softail caliper to keep it from rotating on the axil. With the shovel caliper you have the caliper, pins to allow it to float. A boomerang bracket, a stay bar, and shoulder bolts that become very busy looking, but they can be found with all the parts you would need and may be easier to bolt right on. I imagine the softail brake would locate best in the area of the toolbox in Roo’s picture,
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#40

Post by nanonevol »

Hmmm. Ok, thanks.
So neither of those options use the tab that comes on the Paugho frame.
I don’t weld but I suppose I can get a friend to weld if I have to.
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#41

Post by PanPal »

The shovel type banana caliper may bolt on. Personally I just couldn’t deal with them anymore. I had three of them on 2 bikes that were locking up on me at the same time. Overwhelmed at the time, I now have perhaps a unfair dislike of them. As Roo says they were an early design of a disc setup. We now have better options available when originality is not a concern. But if you are trying to stay period correct, the banana caliper is what was available. If you do decide to try the softail caliper, be sure you choose one for your disc diameter. You can pick them up on E bay for a fair price.
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#42

Post by Mongrel505558 »

PanPal wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:01 pm The shovel type banana caliper may bolt on. Personally I just couldn’t deal with them anymore. I had three of them on 2 bikes that were locking up on me at the same time. Overwhelmed at the time, I now have perhaps a unfair dislike of them. As Roo says they were an early design of a disc setup. We now have better options available when originality is not a concern. But if you are trying to stay period correct, the banana caliper is what was available. If you do decide to try the softail caliper, be sure you choose one for your disc diameter. You can pick them up on E bay for a fair price.
My problem with the shovelhead rear banana caliper was that the holes for the pins would elongate and the caliper would rattle around. There were actually aftermarket kits with a tab that mounted on the axle and a spring that would bear up against the bottom of the caliper to shut it up, but it wasn't completely effective. The front calipers rattled for the same reason, too.
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#43

Post by RooDog »

Mongrel505558 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:57 pm
PanPal wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:01 pm The shovel type banana caliper may bolt on. Personally I just couldn’t deal with them anymore. I had three of them on 2 bikes that were locking up on me at the same time. Overwhelmed at the time, I now have perhaps a unfair dislike of them. As Roo says they were an early design of a disc setup. We now have better options available when originality is not a concern. But if you are trying to stay period correct, the banana caliper is what was available. If you do decide to try the Softail caliper, be sure you choose one for your disc diameter. You can pick them up on E bay for a fair price.
My problem with the Shovelhead rear banana caliper was that the holes for the pins would elongate and the caliper would rattle around. There were actually aftermarket kits with a tab that mounted on the axle and a spring that would bear up against the bottom of the caliper to shut it up, but it wasn't completely effective. The front calipers rattled for the same reason, too.
I ran that banana caliper for about eight years with no issues because it hung vertically with no weight on the short pin. The holes did not elongate.
When I transferred that brake to an OE swing arm it began to show sign of typical wear. Another turd from the MoCo, but give 'em a break, they were new to the game. They then tried to improve the situation with the band-aid fix of the Y bracket & 11.5" rotor. Again, I won't say it.
To me it seems the Harley just had a hard time getting disc brakes to work well for them, and why the aftermarket had so many offerings. Currently I have GMA brakes, from GMA, now owned by BDL, and they suit me just fine. The internals and pads are commonly available and are shared with other brands, such as Performance Machine,and defunct Jay Brake companies.

My submission of the vertical hung caliper was just to offer an mounting option for that 45 project bike, It clears the fender brace.....
....RooDog....
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#44

Post by nifty »

Nanonevol,
My 2c
What do Paughco recommend sell for your frame?

If you were to use a banana caliper, get a rear one off a late-ish shovel, they finally changed to square-section brake seals which actually work without over-retracting caliper piston/puck. (or you might be able to buy a rebuild kit with square-section seals to fix the early ones) Either way the original 0-ring banana seals usually need 2 pedal pumps to get a decent brake happening. Every other manufacturer got their caliper seals right many years before H-D.

If you changed to a 10" disc, a seventies Triumph rear caliper and bracket will work with caliper at bottom and a custom stay to your frame tab, I ran one of these on a 1974 Shovel swingarm when I ditched the worn-out banana, have to open up axle hole and custom spacers welded to steel caliper mount saves a lot of cussing when installing/tire changing. caliper is cast iron, has good water/dust seals, dual piston and now not lying around like they were in the 70s. But it worked well with increased braking due to more piston surface area, used with OE shovel 3/4" bore master cyl.

Something like this used Willwood set up currently on ebay https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/25567070771 ... Sw25ti8-xh
Seller does not state what size disc. Mount so caliper is just ahead of fender stay/brace, appropriate length stay to your frame anchor, appropriate axle spacers and your done. To bleed, remove caliper, screwdriver between pads, hold so one bleeder nipple upright, proceed.

Or make something similar with your caliper of choice.

Stay away from early and repo "racing" calipers, they usually do not have water/dust seals and thus require a lot more maintenance
Or look at late model dirt bikes for inspiration and excellent lightweight brakes, but none will easy fit to 11.5" and not many to 10" disc.
Or get out your wallet for new complete rigid frame set-up of current manufacture.
Nifty
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Re: Paugho 45 build

#45

Post by kitabel »

The brake arm can act in tension from below the axle, or in compression from above the axle. Since the rear axle is fixed (no suspension travel), even allowing the caliper or bracket to rotate until it contacts the frame. The length and position of the link do not matter as long as the caliper can be bled. The link for a swing arm should be floated at both ends to transfer braking load back into the chassis, rather than loading the suspension.
If in compression, the attachment must be stiff enough to prevent bending; in tension even a 5/16" rod is enough.
Any lateral misalignment (link not parallel to the wheelbase) should be cured with shims (rather than a Heim joint).
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