trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

which way?

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nifty
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trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#1

Post by nifty »

Anyone know for absolute sure which way plate shift sprocket mounts? (cow-pie maytag etc)
36-E79 go recess in, plain out.
Found more than a few L79-86 plain in & recess out
Looked in lots of SM and searched KB, Googled, so far zip
Nifty
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#2

Post by RooDog »

The recessed side goes toward the transmission for clearancing the transmission MDG bearing & seal boss of the case.
I just did an eyes-on visual confirmation, and it is true.
There would be no reason for it to face outward, eh??
I even found in an official H-D Service manual: "Install sprocket with flat side outward."
How about that?
....RooDog....
nifty
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#3

Post by nifty »

Roodog,
I too found a SM reference, but only for early trans not L79-86
Looking for MoCo confirmation that all 4 speeds mount same, or not.
80 up they introduced new 0.050" sprocket spacers and different width seal spacers
All of which affect sprocket position, but relevant parts & service manuals are silent.
Nifty
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#4

Post by RooDog »

I looked in a '78-84 SM and found nothing about the sprocket. Sorry, but I assumed it would be consistent throughout the years, Mia culpa...
And I have no hands on experience with the rotary top trannies, but I do have a 1965-68 4 speed with Andrews guts laying on the garage/shop floor....
So, the question remains.... Do we need clearance on the back side of the sprocket or not?
....RD......
nifty
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#5

Post by nifty »

EDIT Thought I'd answered my own question by looking closer
Trans Sprockets:

36-E79 recessed on one side, installs with recess towards transmission, plain side outwards. L38-64 had oil deflector cup at outside, then tab washer & nut. Sprocket recess is to clear trans housing. Recess ensures rear chain as close as possible to MDG. Installation direction common knowledge and stated in OE SMs.

EDIT 80-84 (approx) different sprocket, plain both sides except for slightly relieved splines on one side only. OE Service Manuals don’t actually state this for plate shift/cow pie trans, but 78-84 OE SM shows 3 photos with sprocket clearly installed plain side out. But with this 80-84 sprocket in mix that doesn't tell you which sprocket it is,
sprocket L79-E83 fig 7-27 78-84 SM.jpg
sprocket L79-E83 fig 7-14 78-84 SM.jpg
sprocket L79-E83 fig 7-24 78-84 SM.jpg
However… The same OE SM also shows one photo with sprocket installed recess outwards and states that this is L83-84. Parts manual doesn't exactly agree, but nothing unusual about that.
sprocket E83-84 fig 6-10 78-84 SM.jpg
L83-84 (approx) new recessed sprocket sans small boss at splines on recess side (thinner at splines), drilled & tapped in 3 places for single 857 socket head screw. INSTALLED WITH RECESS OUT. Screw head against nut hex prevents nut from loosening. NOT USED WITH TABWASHER, OR LOCKING PLATE. Obsolete NLA replaced by type with lockplate and 2 screws. EDIT this photo is wrong see Roodog post below

Again, nothing in SM but 35079-80 WASHER, sprocket spacer, PLAIN, SPACES SPROCKET ONLY, NOT FOR SEAL 1.540” x 2.250” ” x 0.050” thick was also introduced.

84up (approx) as for 82-83 except recess bigger for new lockplate, only 2 x ¼” 28 UNF holes at 180 degrees INSTALLED WITH RECESS OUT. Used with lockplate and 2 x screws. Retrofits to earlier, but requires spacing washer, can use hex head set screws for more clearance. Replicated by AM, PBI advertise their knock off as “Heavy-Duty”, but PBI splines are both looser on MDG and thinner than OE 36-E83.

EDIT So no answer yet see below.

All above images copyright Harley-Davidson

Nifty
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Last edited by nifty on Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Andygears
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#6

Post by Andygears »

Nifty, weren’t all big twins from ‘84 up rear belt, not chain? And between ‘80 and ‘84 with Sturgis twin belts and ‘80 FLT 5 speed belt rear and yet a couple years of FXR 5 speed chains, it all is very confusing.
Thanks for some definitive data.

Andygears
nifty
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#7

Post by nifty »

Andy
You are probably correct that 84up were all rear belt
Someone else can worry about 4 speed rear belts, I don't play in that sandpit.
I live for definitive data, so thanks for your thanks
IMO All the changes to sprocket & lockplates, ridiculous nut torques etc were derived from MoCo 4speed rear belt disasters and applied to rear chain to amortize expense
Nifty
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#8

Post by RooDog »

This last factory picture, with the locking set screws, is of the early 5-speed, chain drive sprockets, which were deeply dished, rather than simply relieved, as on the 4-speeds. When doing the 5 into 4 conversion, this sprocket is flipped, concave toward the tranny, to correct the alignment with the rear wheel sprocket.
It has nothing in common with the 4-speed sprockets other than the tooth configuration, and the hex size on the nut.
....RooDog....
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#9

Post by nifty »

Roodog
Above pic with locking set screw is from 4 speed specific SM, granted MoCo are known for using wrong pics.

Did early 5 speeds use 4 speed 6 spline type MDG? Or are all 5 speeds fine spline sprockets & MDGs as for other Evo?

78-84 FX parts book lists 33337-83 SPROCKET KIT, 23T for 80-84 FX
41-84 FL parts book lists 33338-83 sprocket kit with 857 setscrew for 80-82 FL- FLH

EDIT I was wrongly led to believe 33338-83 sprocket was 22T 6 spline, dished/slightly offset, with threads for single setscrew.
See more below, Nifty
Last edited by nifty on Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
RooDog
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#10

Post by RooDog »

Nifty....
They both are six splined. The fiver's larger diameter on the NDG....
The fine splines were for the belt drive pulleys, and even those had changes in the mid-1990s....
....RD....
Harley Sprockets, Smaller Format.jpg
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#11

Post by nifty »

Ok so did any early 5 speeds have 22T sprockets?
Apparently yes they did and the used sprocket I posted earlier is almost certainly one of them and definitely NOT a 33338-83 4 speed sprocket. To avoid confusion I deleted wrong pics and edited text

Roodog is completely correct and MoCo have used a 5 speed sprocket photo in their dedicated 4 speed FL service manual.

However, I now also know that a sprocket from real NOS OE 33338-83 kit, is almost a plain plate sprocket with only the splines slightly relieved on one side only and screw appears to be UNC

Unfortunately the MoCo instructions supplied in these kits fail to state which way round sprocket goes on 80-84 4 speed. One is referred to the service manual which is also devoid of instruction.

So 80-84 4 speed used different sprockets, my gut says relieved splines outwards with .050" washer behind.
Nifty
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Last edited by nifty on Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
RooDog
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#12

Post by RooDog »

nifty wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:02 pm Ok so did any early 5 speeds have 22T sprockets?
Nifty
H-D #s 3336-83, & 3339-86 were 22T
I use a 24T on my Sputhe conversion....
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#13

Post by Hogey »

late Flat sprockets wont fit 65-69 as they rub on primary. Also you can flip a recessed sprocket and space rear for fatter tire
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Re: trans sprocket L79-86 4 speed

#14

Post by RooDog »

nifty wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:02 pm Ok so did any early 5 speeds have 22T sprockets?
Apparently yes they did and the used sprocket I posted earlier is almost certainly one of them and definitely NOT a 33338-83 4 speed sprocket. To avoid confusion I deleted wrong pics and edited text

Roodog is completely correct and MoCo have used a 5 speed sprocket photo in their dedicated 4 speed FL service manual.

However, I now also know that a sprocket from real NOS OE 33338-83 kit, is almost a plain plate sprocket with only the splines slightly relieved on one side only and screw appears to be UNC

Unfortunately the MoCo instructions supplied in these kits fail to state which way round sprocket goes on 80-84 4 speed. One is referred to the service manual which is also devoid of instruction.

So 80-84 4 speed used different sprockets, my gut says relieved splines outwards with .050" washer behind.
Nifty
Nifty....
This is some interesting, and head scratching, stuff I have never had the opportunity to deal with.
But not knowing the particulars I am at a loss as to why the -80 sprocket is relieved/counter bored. I only know what I know, none of what I have forgotten, some of what I can figure out on the fly, and the rest should be in books somewhere just waiting to be discovered.....
Best Wishes.... RooDog....
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