V-Twin "Replica" Pan Heads

[FL54]

I use the same procedure as Andy except I use a couple more prime kicks. Very little throttle. Usually fires on first kick.

[Mongrel505558]

I have an S&S Super B carb on my pan, with the typical S&S enrichener instead of choke. Cold it's two kicks with ignition off and enrichener on to prime it. Then usually one kick with enrichener off and ignition on to light it off.

Hot I just turn the ignition on and kick. If it doesn't start on one or two kicks I shut the ignition off and kick it with the throttle open to clear it out. Then wait, turn the ignition back on, and kick again. Usually that does it.

I also replaced my idle speed adjust screw with a longer one that I threaded a knurled brass knob onto. When the bike is cold it starts easier with the idle speed a tad higher than when warm. I can just reach down and give the screw a tiny turn - maybe 5 or 10 degrees clockwise. When it's fully warmed up I just back it down. It's easy to do while riding with this arrangement.

[drinner-okc]

I have not finished or ran my engine with the V-Twin outside oiler heads, we took them apart to inspect & replace the springs. It was like a poor automotive valve job. The contact area on the seats was easily over .100" wide on all the valves. The black nitrided valves seem to be fair quality, but the exhaust valves have a concave grind just inside the ground face. Not sure if that's a flow enhancement trick or not. The fit guide-to-valve stem is good.
The springs: the outers were hazardly painted red, the inners were already very rusty. They will go in a set of mock-up heads. The steel seats are about 2/3rds as thick as common replacement seats, and there is plenty of material behind them.
I will update when they are installed on the engine.

[drinner-okc]

Well I have another reason to hate V-Twin! I've been working & saving & buying parts for these new heads. I bought Rocker Block Studs from V-Twin, all new Rocker Block Assemblies from Eastern, new Pan Covers & D-Rings from V-Twin, and the fittings for Overhead Oilers from V-Twin.
I took off work today (6/23) to assemble the heads as the lower end is almost buttoned-up. I installed the studs in the rear head and they held the Pan Covers off the gasket surface by over 1/16". I shortened all the studs 3 threads (on the head end). OEM Harley studs (17647-48) have a rolled thread and it's an interference fit all the way. Tedd's studs are a cut thread & screw in with your fingers. ( I used a copious amount of Red Lock-Tite on them). Then I went to install the Blocks. The Dowel locations on the Rear Head are about a quarter hole off on the Intake & Exhaust locations!! I tried both the Eastern Blocks & several OEM I have. So I set the rear head aside and started on the front. I put in the Dowels first and put the lower Bearing Block in place. I was able to start all studs so I removed the block, installed & Lock-Tited the Studs. I was able to install the lower Bearing Block on the Dowels, Assembly Lubed the Rocker & installed and bolted on the Top Cap.
I can say the Eastern Rocker Block Assemblies are machined well, have good end clearance & rotate smooth after torque.
Also, these are Outside Oiler heads & the 1/8NPT thread for the fitting was threaded too deep, Several wraps of Teflon Tape & these should not leak. Also the threads for the top motor mount stud were easy to screw in by fingers. Also Lock-Tited in place.
Since I've had these heads nearly a year now, we are not even calling V-Twin. The plan is to remove the Dowels in the rear head, plug the existing holes with aluminum dowels, Mill the surface flat, set the Blocks in place & transfer punch the new location & drill new holes.
Good thing my part-time job has a full Machine Shop !!

[RooDog]

Good thing my part-time job has a full Machine Shop !!
[/quote]

That's what it takes with cussed 'em parts.
How many others out there are not so lucky.

I din't know Eastern made rocker blocks. Got a picture?
....RooDog....

[drinner-okc]

OK, the holes were not as far off as I first thought. The dowels were flat, and the bottoms of the blocks are flat.
I filed the dowels a little 'lead-in' and chamfered the bottom holes on the blocks. Once I finally got the pins started the blocks tapped into place.
I will say, the Eastern Blocks & Rockers are nice, the top cap is a different metal from OEM, but once torqued down all four rotate freely, no binding.
First week August 2022, bottom of engine is nearly fini$hed, cylinders are fit & painted & heads ready to install.

[RooDog]

I really would like to see a picture of those "Eastern" blocks.....
I see that they are "imported", so are they any different than what anybody else is selling?

http://easternmotorcycleparts.com/engin ... 6_137.html

[doc9339]

Gotta add my 2 cents. The whole, "This is how I start my bike" comments may be irrelevent: State of tune, condition of engine, many other etc's, makes these statements a little off base based upon the original OP's post

Myself, I have a set of V Twin heads on my 60 FL. All I did was check for bench test leaks, bolted them on, they work fine, three years later. (I did find the rockers were a little tight upon inspection), but that was it

I also got V Twins matched piston,rings/cylinder heads. And I dont care who makes a so called "matched" positon/cylinder. set: I ALWAYS have them doubled checked by my local machine shop. Mine was spec on after measured, bolted them in, and for three years have had no issues

My point?: Whomever you buy heads or piston/cylinder sets from, check them before installation, period: Youll save serious time/money.

But here is the real qustion: If V Twin is the name brand that seems to be the issue, I have to ask: Who actually makes these parts, but are sold under another brand name(s)?

I dont believe V Twin owns the foundry where they are made. Someone does, and Il bet money these same exact parts form the same exact factory, are sold under multiple other brand names

I cant speak for all the neg comments on these parts: But if one didnt check specs before installation, you are half the issue

So help me out here: Let's say one ordered a head set from V Twin, and another guy did from another vendor that has another vendor name on the box.

Where did your arrived parts actually come from? Are they actually the same?

My point is this: Lets say SS sells cylinders (Dont know if they do, just a talking point): If SS does not own the foundry, who is to say the same foundry doesnt sell the same exact part under another namebrand?

[drinner-okc]

Doc, on the V-Twin website these heads are described as 'Imported' and the vendor is' Motorshop' the casting really looks like a bootlegged STD casting. boxes were marked Taiwan. not ID'd anywhere with a Tedds or V-Twin logo. When S&S got into the vintage reproduction market they had acquired a company called Flathead Power (also Knucklehead Power) that's where the S&S KN93 Knuckle engine comes from. now all the S&S parts bear the S&S logo. The S&S Pan heads do not use panhead rockers & valve train. It's more EVO type. When STD was around all their parts were marked STD. If not Harley lawyers were knocking on the door!

[Andygears]

As I have commented before, it’s simple, there is no “Quality Control” on some Chinese parts. If they make 100 parts, the foundry makes 100, machines 100, assembles 100, sells 100! No poor quality parts were rejected in the manufacture of this product. Check everything right away when you buy it. Often I will buy from my local independent dealer, I can hold the part before buying, he will stand behind his product and exchange the crappy new part for one less crappy that will work. Some parts he will not sell, like aftermarket front wheel speedo drives, they don’t last so he only sells OEM’s. Keep your local shop in business, one day you will need him and he may care! J&P retail clerks never will.

My opinion
Andygears

[hdrl1935]

About ready to pull the trigger on a set of these. It's been a string of bad luck on two sets of OEM heads I have and it's clear that good OEM heads are extremely hard to find in decent shape.

If I get these I plan on replacing the valve train. Will stock shovelhead intake and stock panhead exhaust valves fit lengthwise? Shovelhead intake valves are longer...

Thanks in advance.

[RooDog]

About ready to pull the trigger on a set of these. It's been a string of bad luck on two sets of OEM heads I have and it's clear that good OEM heads are extremely hard to find in decent shape.

If I get these I plan on replacing the valve train. Will stock shovelhead intake and stock panhead exhaust valves fit lengthwise? Shovelhead intake valves are longer...

Thanks in advance.

Shovelhead valves are the same length, but the added head diameter is of little to no advantage. Don't use them unless your seats are worn out and you need to go oversize....
....RooDog....

[hdrl1935]

Roo,

I am talking about the V-twin heads which SAY they use shovelhead intake valves. Also from everything I read, panhead intakes are 3.790 OAL, shovelhead intakes are 3.885.

So my question still remains, since I will be ordering springs and collars from kibblewhite, will shovel intake and pan exhaust work as a drop in replacement for the V-twin provided valves? (you can't buy bare heads)

Otherwise, I don't disagree with shovelhead valves being too large for panhead...

[RooDog]

Roo,

I am talking about the V-twin heads which SAY they use shovelhead intake valves. Also from everything I read, panhead intakes are 3.790 OAL, shovelhead intakes are 3.885.

So my question still remains, since I will be ordering springs and collars from kibblewhite, will shovel intake and pan exhaust work as a drop in replacement for the V-twin provided valves? (you can't buy bare heads)

Otherwise, I don't disagree with shovelhead valves being too large for panhead...

I'll rephrase what I said: Shovelhead, and Panhead valves are the same length, use the same guides, springs & collars until the early 1980s.
Or ask Kibblewhite, read their catalog, cross reference part numbers. It's all interchangeable, except, obviously the difference in the SH vs PH IN valve head dias....
....RooDog....

[Alex E]

I just got a set of these V-Twin repop panheads. The castings appear excellent. The valve train is garbage. Plan on replacing everything except the castings, maybe keep the guides? Replace everything else with Kibblewhite or equivalent. Yes, the intake valves are Shovelhead length 3.885 long, what does that do to the panheads rocker arm geometry?

I'll attach some photos, look at the rusty inner springs it came with!!! The valves shown in the head photo are Kibblewhite Shovelhead intake and exhaust. Intakes are 3.885 in length.

A big concern with these heads called out earlier in this thread is the valve to valve clearance at TDC overlap. I carefully measured, the limits for me are .149 lift at .040 clearance between the valves.
That measurement does not give you much camshaft choice as most besides stock exceed that lift at overlap and the valves will hit.