Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

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RooDog
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#16

Post by RooDog »

Well, It's good to see it's coming together.
The rod length is easy enough to fix. Just use a die to cut how ever more threads you need and cut off what you don't. A lot easier than if the rod was too short, no?
The interference with the ratchet's arm is another story, Perhaps you can bend that arm a little toward the primary?
Sleep on it, an answer will present itself if you allow your mind to run free, and don't force it....
....RooDog....
michigander52
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#17

Post by michigander52 »

I had some time today to work on the mousetrap and it seems the list of issues is getting bigger.
1) When I installed the clutch cable that came with the VTwin kit the bushing on the end of the cable is smaller than the hole in the perch on my existing switch housing so I'm going to have to come up with a bushing to step up to the cable perch. Temporarily put a washer on the end of the cable sleeve to take up the space and that worked enough to get the cable adjusted so I moved onto adjusting the mousetrap which led to the next issue.
2) The next issue is the shoulder bolt nut drags on the spring adjuster when disengaging the clutch. This bolt is located in the original location and will need to be moved up an inch or so to work with the later aluminum primary set-up versus the tin primary on the earlier models.
It seems that the spring and adjuster are too close to the bell-crank.
I don't understand how this worked on the original bikes? Maybe I don't have something installed correctly so I'll have to do a little more research.
The first picture is of the cable and switch housing/perch
The second picture is of the bell-crank and clutch rod shoulder bolt.

Steve
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RooDog
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#18

Post by RooDog »

michigander52 wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:06 am I had some time today to work on the mousetrap and it seems the list of issues is getting bigger.
1) When I installed the clutch cable that came with the VTwin kit the bushing on the end of the cable is smaller than the hole in the perch on my existing switch housing so I'm going to have to come up with a bushing to step up to the cable perch. Temporarily put a washer on the end of the cable sleeve to take up the space and that worked enough to get the cable adjusted so I moved onto adjusting the mousetrap which led to the next issue.
2) The next issue is the shoulder bolt nut drags on the spring adjuster when disengaging the clutch. This bolt is located in the original location and will need to be moved up an inch or so to work with the later aluminum primary set-up versus the tin primary on the earlier models.
It seems that the spring and adjuster are too close to the bell-crank.
I don't understand how this worked on the original bikes? Maybe I don't have something installed correctly so I'll have to do a little more research.
The first picture is of the cable and switch housing/perch
The second picture is of the bell-crank and clutch rod shoulder bolt.

Steve
A washer at the clutch perch is a workable solution.

Rotate the booster spring eye until you gain clearance. But once you tighten the spring to get it to energize the MT it will ride lower in the "frog" and clear the trunion bolt. Measure carefully before drilling that hole in the bell crank as it is important for all the leverage/travel ratios to work together properly. Once the hole is drilled it will be difficult to change if in the wrong place.....
....RooDog....
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#19

Post by michigander52 »

Well I was able to do some more work on this today and basically have it working right with a few modifications so the clutch rod, clutch release lever, shift linkage and clutch lever/cable. I haven't drilled the hole to relocate the clutch rod yet but have it working without doing that however I think it would help to clear the shifter linkage better so do plan to once I'm satisfied I determine the correct location to drill.
I will have to bend the shift linkage for it to clear the clutch rod at the transmission and hopefully I can make it look decent. I found an old clevis and rod for a temporary linkage rod just to see what is needed to clear the clutch rod.
I'd like to see a picture of the correct/late model bellcrank so I can try to duplicate that. I think it will need a stud rather than a shoulder bold due the tight clearance at the MT spring. I believe the clutch rod will have to connect on the inside not the outside of the bellcrank. The parts books show the pin location on the outside bu I don't see how there is enough clearance between the spring unless the bellcrank is bent in a little.
Steve....
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RooDog
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#20

Post by RooDog »

This is the third time I have tried to post this pic. I hope it works....
Maybe the next time you have the bike apart you could change out the ratchet top for an FL style with the shifter pointing down, and then everything will fit as the Harley Gods had meant for them to....
PS: I searched my parts stash for this bell crank, with no luck. I probably sold it last year....
Using this pic one can gauge centers and figure the ratios necessary to locate the E-start stud/hole center....
....RooDog...
MousrTrap Bell Crank.JPG
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Last edited by RooDog on Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FL54
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#21

Post by FL54 »

F2A5A85B-9189-451A-AD3B-177EACE4337F.jpeg
‘67 FLH.
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michigander52
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#22

Post by michigander52 »

RooDog wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:34 am This is the third time I have tried to post this pic. I hope it works....
Maybe the next time you have the bike apart you could change out the ratchet top for an FL style with the shifter pointing down, and then everything will fit as the Harley Gods had meant for them to....
PS: I searched my parts stash for this bell crank, with no luck. I probably sold it last year....
Using this pic one can gauge centers and figure the ratios necessary to locate the E-start stud/hole center....
....RooDog...
MousrTrap Bell Crank.JPG
Thanks for the picture RooDog, that will help. I do plan to aquire the part's to convert the ratchet top to the FL style. Will I only need the shift cam/drum and arm or will I need the complete ratchet top?
Also I plan to install the speedometer gear in the transmission as the FX style drives from the front wheel. Can't believe they didn't just leave the gear in there, guess all those dime's added up.
Steve.....
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#23

Post by michigander52 »

FL54 wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:34 pm F2A5A85B-9189-451A-AD3B-177EACE4337F.jpeg

‘67 FLH.
Thanks for this FL54!! I think I need to add a little kick out to my bellcrank. Thanks.
Steve....
RooDog
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#24

Post by RooDog »

michigander52 wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:11 pm
RooDog wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:34 am This is the third time I have tried to post this pic. I hope it works....
Maybe the next time you have the bike apart you could change out the ratchet top for an FL style with the shifter pointing down, and then everything will fit as the Harley Gods had meant for them to....
PS: I searched my parts stash for this bell crank, with no luck. I probably sold it last year....
Using this pic one can gauge centers and figure the ratios necessary to locate the E-start stud/hole center....
....RooDog...
MousrTrap Bell Crank.JPG
Thanks for the picture RooDog, that will help. I do plan to acquire the part's to convert the ratchet top to the FL style. Will I only need the shift cam/drum and arm or will I need the complete ratchet top?
Also I plan to install the speedometer gear in the transmission as the FX style drives from the front wheel. Can't believe they didn't just leave the gear in there, guess all those dime's added up.
Steve.....
The entire ratchet top will need to be changed, or at least the internal drum. Or you can keep the top assembly, put an FL arm on the ratchet, pointing downward, and have a reversed, 1 up, 3 down, foot shifter, an old racer's trick.

There is absolutely no need to bend anything on the bell crank. Don't do it.

The front wheel speedo drive will remain constant regardless of what sprockets you use on the transmission and/or rear wheel. feed the speedo from the tranny, and it will be off over its entire sweep by whatever percentage you change the gearing from stock FL 22-51 sprockets. And since I like 24/48, or 46, a front wheel drive is almost mandatory, though there are rear wheel drives available....
Here's one..... https://www.ebay.com/itm/163855314812
....RD....
FL54
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#25

Post by FL54 »

RooDog wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:40 pm
michigander52 wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:11 pm
RooDog wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:34 am This is the third time I have tried to post this pic. I hope it works....
Maybe the next time you have the bike apart you could change out the ratchet top for an FL style with the shifter pointing down, and then everything will fit as the Harley Gods had meant for them to....
PS: I searched my parts stash for this bell crank, with no luck. I probably sold it last year....
Using this pic one can gauge centers and figure the ratios necessary to locate the E-start stud/hole center....
....RooDog...
MousrTrap Bell Crank.JPG
Thanks for the picture RooDog, that will help. I do plan to acquire the part's to convert the ratchet top to the FL style. Will I only need the shift cam/drum and arm or will I need the complete ratchet top?
Also I plan to install the speedometer gear in the transmission as the FX style drives from the front wheel. Can't believe they didn't just leave the gear in there, guess all those dime's added up.
Steve.....
The entire ratchet top will need to be changed, or at least the internal drum. Or you can keep the top assembly, put an FL arm on the ratchet, pointing downward, and have a reversed, 1 up, 3 down, foot shifter, an old racer's trick.

There is absolutely no need to bend anything on the bell crank. Don't do it.

The front wheel speedo drive will remain constant regardless of what sprockets you use on the transmission and/or rear wheel. feed the speedo from the tranny, and it will be off over its entire sweep by whatever percentage you change the gearing from stock FL 22-51 sprockets. And since I like 24/48, or 46, a front wheel drive is almost mandatory, though there are rear wheel drives available....
Here's one..... https://www.ebay.com/itm/163855314812
....RD....
A guy rebuilt the tranny
michigander52 wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:11 pm [quote=RooDog post_id=153764 time=<a href="tel:1654572878">1654572878</a> user_id=9004]
This is the third time I have tried to post this pic. I hope it works....
Maybe the next time you have the bike apart you could change out the ratchet top for an FL style with the shifter pointing down, and then everything will fit as the Harley Gods had meant for them to....
PS: I searched my parts stash for this bell crank, with no luck. I probably sold it last year....
Using this pic one can gauge centers and figure the ratios necessary to locate the E-start stud/hole center....
....RooDog...
MousrTrap Bell Crank.JPG
Thanks for the picture RooDog, that will help. I do plan to aquire the part's to convert the ratchet top to the FL style. Will I only need the shift cam/drum and arm or will I need the complete ratchet top?
Also I plan to install the speedometer gear in the transmission as the FX style drives from the front wheel. Can't believe they didn't just leave the gear in there, guess all those dime's added up.
Steve.....
[/quote]
RooDog wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:40 pm [quote=michigander52 post_id=153771 time=<a href="tel:1654614681">1654614681</a> user_id=7486]
[quote=RooDog post_id=153764 time=<a href="tel:1654572878">1654572878</a> user_id=9004]
This is the third time I have tried to post this pic. I hope it works....
Maybe the next time you have the bike apart you could change out the ratchet top for an FL style with the shifter pointing down, and then everything will fit as the Harley Gods had meant for them to....
PS: I searched my parts stash for this bell crank, with no luck. I probably sold it last year....
Using this pic one can gauge centers and figure the ratios necessary to locate the E-start stud/hole center....
....RooDog...
MousrTrap Bell Crank.JPG
Thanks for the picture RooDog, that will help. I do plan to acquire the part's to convert the ratchet top to the FL style. Will I only need the shift cam/drum and arm or will I need the complete ratchet top?
Also I plan to install the speedometer gear in the transmission as the FX style drives from the front wheel. Can't believe they didn't just leave the gear in there, guess all those dime's added up.
Steve.....
[/quote]

The entire ratchet top will need to be changed, or at least the internal drum. Or you can keep the top assembly, put an FL arm on the ratchet, pointing downward, and have a reversed, 1 up, 3 down, foot shifter, an old racer's trick.

There is absolutely no need to bend anything on the bell crank. Don't do it.

The front wheel speedo drive will remain constant regardless of what sprockets you use on the transmission and/or rear wheel. feed the speedo from the tranny, and it will be off over its entire sweep by whatever percentage you change the gearing from stock FL 22-51 sprockets. And since I like 24/48, or 46, a front wheel drive is almost mandatory, though there are rear wheel drives available....
Here's one..... https://www.ebay.com/itm/163855314812
....RD....

A guy rebuilt the tranny on my foot clutch/ tank shift Panhead a few years back and put the shift lever up. I fired her up for a road test, dropped her in gear and let out the clutch......stalled. The shift arm up reversed the position of the gears so it was in 4th instead of 1st. Your racer’s trick didn’t work well with the tank shift gate Roo. No harm, no foul everything fine now. Another wrinkle. I had a hell of a time adjusting the rod length. Position in the shift gate was all over the place until I realized that the shift arm (Tedd’s special) was pressed on and was rotating slightly on the shaft. A 1/16 th movement on the shaft was changing the position in the shift gate considerably an inconsistently. I finally figured out what was happening and welded it into position and problem solved. Ahh... the beauty of aftermarket parts. He had changed it out because the hole in the original had turned into an oval from over 60 years of use. Don’t they make anything that lasts anymore?
RooDog
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#26

Post by RooDog »

My "racer's trick" works well for a foot shift tranny, not for an inverted tank shifter top.
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#27

Post by FL54 »

Roger that Roo. Always appreciate your insights.
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#28

Post by michigander52 »

Well I was able to finally get the mousetrap installed and working well. I took it out for a couple of miles today to see how it worked out and it worked great. The clutch pull is super easy and finding neutral has never been easier. I will need to make some adjustments to the MT spring tension or maybe the clutch springs. When pulling away from a stop the clutch lever felt like it wanted to stay disengaged. I have about 1 1/4 inch between the pressure plate and release disc, the clutch isn't slipping but maybe it needs to be a little tighter to help the MT work better.
Also I didn't have to drill a new hole to relocate the clutch rod. I made a new clutch rod and a new shift linkage rod and did a few subtle bends and now every thing clears with no interference.
I will say that this isn't a bolt on project but with a little patience and a few trips to the hardware store it is very doable and worth the investment.
So for now I just need to put some miles on it to fine tune the adjustment and get used to the feel.
Thanks for all of your help with this.
Steve
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RooDog
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Re: Mousetrap on 1976 Shovelhead

#29

Post by RooDog »

Right on....
Loosening the MT spring, making it shorter, is the way to get it to not stick in the released position. It will increase the lever pressure a bit, but that is all part of the balancing act necessary to getting the MT working properly....
....RooDog.....
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