Counter shaft alignment

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nanonevol
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Counter shaft alignment

#1

Post by nanonevol »

Attempting to assemble a ratchet top 4 speed. I sourced the correct counter shaft bushings and pressed them in but when I try to feed
in the shaft it does not line up.
wD8yWGFm.jpg
EWoI5qjl.jpg

I even managed to make a tool from sockets that should have helped push in the bushings straight but it seems the
case itself is out of whack.
elKNgFWm.jpg
Anyone experienced this or have a suggestion?
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nifty
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#2

Post by nifty »

nanonevol,
Yikes! Are there any obvious welds on case?
Provided everything else is good.
I would carefully remove the sprocket side bush again and first check that its bore is true to its OD.
A badly made repop bush would not surprise.
If bush is good, I'd then buy a pair of oversize bushes, remove kick-side bush and line-ream the case on both sides to true up case holes & suit new OS.
Be aware that after line-reaming the case spot faces for bush flanges may not be true to new reamed bores, not a lot you can do except a little epoxy in gap for more support.
Or a lot of expensive re-machining, or buy another case.
Someone else may know of someone already set up for this specific repair?
Nifty
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#3

Post by Mongrel505558 »

nanonevol wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:40 pm Attempting to assemble a ratchet top 4 speed. I sourced the correct counter shaft bushings and pressed them in but when I try to feed
in the shaft it does not line up.

wD8yWGFm.jpg
EWoI5qjl.jpg


I even managed to make a tool from sockets that should have helped push in the bushings straight but it seems the
case itself is out of whack.

elKNgFWm.jpg

Anyone experienced this or have a suggestion?
In my limited experience with 4-speed rebuilds I had to replace a pair of countershaft bushings. I used a threaded rod, some washers, a couple of nuts and a couple of sockets to press the old ones out and the new ones in. Sounds like what you did. Mine line up fine. I did use OEM bushings, but I think your case may be messed up. How was the countershaft alignment when you took it apart (or was it already apart)?
nanonevol
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#4

Post by nanonevol »

Thank you for the replies. Was an empty case when I got it.
I was not aware of oversize bushings so that is a possibility.
Very strange situation. How did the case get this way? No evidence of welds.
I may be able to force the shaft into position but this could end up breaking the case.
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#5

Post by nmaineron »

I had this problem with a case that was welded. I had better fitment than what you show. I managed to get the shaft through but it bound everything up. I ended up junking the case.
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#6

Post by RooDog »

Is this an OEM or aftermarket? Is it maker marked. I know of some Delkron cases that were junk....
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#7

Post by Mongrel505558 »

nanonevol wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:55 pm Thank you for the replies. Was an empty case when I got it.
I was not aware of oversize bushings so that is a possibility.
Very strange situation. How did the case get this way? No evidence of welds.
I may be able to force the shaft into position but this could end up breaking the case.
I wouldn't force anything. Too much stress on the case. Even if it doesn't crack when you force the shaft the stress will probably force the case to crack down the road, not to mention how it might affect the meshing of the gears and shifting. I'd start looking for another case. I'd also look for some OEM bushing. They're cheap enough to try first. A quick look through ebay found this just now: https://www.ebay.com/p/1623400118

Jim
nanonevol
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#8

Post by nanonevol »

Thanks again.
Yeah, I believe it's a gen-u-wine Harley.
Image
The bushings too are NOS but they are not the problem.
Having trouble finding oversize bushings but I think I'm needing a new case anyway.

Meanwhile, I ordered and received this main drive gear bushing from Parts Giant.
They didn't know which way to install but I'm sure someone here does.
ImageImage
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#9

Post by guppymech »

Pretty sure the spiral end of the main drive gear bushing goes towards the outside, it winds excess oil back away from the seal.
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#10

Post by Mongrel505558 »

nanonevol wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:43 pm Thanks again.
Yeah, I believe it's a gen-u-wine Harley.
Image
The bushings too are NOS but they are not the problem.
Having trouble finding oversize bushings but I think I'm needing a new case anyway.

Meanwhile, I ordered and received this main drive gear bushing from Parts Giant.
They didn't know which way to install but I'm sure someone here does.
ImageImage
Yep. That's a genuine H-D case.

Remember that in fourth the drive gear is moving along with the mainshaft, and in the other three gears it's actually moving backwards with respect to the mainshaft, so the spirals should turn relative to the mainshaft so they feed the oil back into the transmission like a screw pump.
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#11

Post by nmaineron »

I'm wondering if updating the case for the newer needle bearings would be an option.
nanonevol
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#12

Post by nanonevol »

Shifter fork shaft arrived. This case is clearly out of whack.
Again, no sign of welding or repair at all. A mystery as the case must have seen use.
It's like the whole case got bent.
ImageImage
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#13

Post by Mongrel505558 »

nmaineron wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:53 pm I'm wondering if updating the case for the newer needle bearings would be an option.
The loose roller and needle bearing countershafts only differ by a few thou in diameter, so unless the problem is in the bushings themselves anything he puts in there won't line up.
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#14

Post by Mongrel505558 »

nanonevol wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:33 pm Shifter fork shaft arrived. This case is clearly out of whack.
Again, no sign of welding or repair at all. A mystery as the case must have seen use.
It's like the whole case got bent.
ImageImage
Wow. That case is a mess! I can't even see how that case could end up shaped like that without cracking some time along the way. It's all distorted or twisted. At least you know now that you don't have to worry about the bushings anymore. Nothing is going to fit. Have you tried screwing a lid onto it? I'll bet that will be screwy, too.

Time to look for another case. V-Twin cases are around 350 bucks. I know they're Taiwan, but they're better than what you have.
nanonevol
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Re: Counter shaft alignment

#15

Post by nanonevol »

The problem is not the bushings as I tried orienting them different ways with the same result.
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