H-D additional original component identifying numbers

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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#16

Post by RUBONE »

Thank you Eric for your perseverance and dedication to this hobby!!
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#17

Post by Raytag »

This is awesome

Ray
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#18

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Cheers everyone. I’ve been working on a few other subjects too but it’s hard to find time to finish things.



Bone Head, please let me know if you can’t identify that narrow glide from my posts above because for lower triple clamps I also have ID letters for 1986 through 2007.
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#19

Post by CC Rider »

Great information! Now I need to start looking for my component numbers!
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#20

Post by bigbox »

great post Eric, thanks
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#21

Post by Doc37W »

Eric, In regards to the early frame numbers, I have seen two original, VERY LATE '61 panheads with the 'snake eyes' punch marks and the frame numbers starting with A. Both were unmolested, with original owners. In the course of conversations with both, they said they had never had the frame replaced for any reason. I have owned a '61 also, But it was in the 5000 range, the frame was stamped 1 A on the top motor mount, right side (Jan. '61) & it didn't have the security frame number. Doc
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#22

Post by Bone Head »

Speeding Big Twin wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:59 am Cheers everyone. I’ve been working on a few other subjects too but it’s hard to find time to finish things.



Bone Head, please let me know if you can’t identify that narrow glide from my posts above because for lower triple clamps I also have ID letters for 1986 through 2007.
Eric
No joy for him, you and me. Aftermarket front end. No numbers anywhere.
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#23

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Thanks Bone Head.



Thanks Doc. According to Pete Simet the additional ID began in the 62 model year but perhaps he was referring to the official introduction and didn’t let on that a few very late 61s were the first to receive that ID? Do you know if those two 61s had additional ID on the lower triple clamp and trans case?

In my first post I mentioned that at least one publication said 1961. It was a guide to motorcycle identification written by Lee S Cole. He referred to the additional ID as supplemental numbers and he said it began in 61. But his info contains a lot of errors and some are the same as those found in the CHP booklet—for example, he wrongly says the E-O code started in 62. Cole also indicates the Knucklehead was first made for 1927, the Hydro (yep, Hydro) Glide was first made for 1948 and the Duo-Glide was last made for 1965. The list of mistakes goes on. In other words his guide has very little credibility.

But those two very late 61s are interesting so I’ll make a note of them and keep an eye out for others.
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#24

Post by Bone Head »

Speeding Big Twin wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:03 pm ...But his info contains a lot of errors and some are the same as those found in the CHP booklet—for example, he wrongly says the E-O code started in 62. Cole also indicates the Knucklehead was first made for 1927, the Hydro (yep, Hydro) Glide was first made for 1948 and the Duo-Glide was last made for 1965. The list of mistakes goes on. In other words his guide has very little credibility.
Eric
CHP? California Highway Patrol? If so, wonder how many legitimate bikes were impounded because of erroneous information?
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#25

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

The California Highway Patrol booklet contains a lot of errors including when the E-O code started and finished. It said model year 1962 was the beginning of the code and that it continued to the present. Given the year the booklet is said to have been printed, and given some of its references to the early-70s, it seems the present at that time may have meant approximately 1971. But the booklet is wrong for both ends of the E-O code because it started with 1960 models and ended with 1969 models. I’ve never seen any evidence that it was used for 1970-later.

Also getting the start year wrong for the E-O code was a Connecticut police document dated July 1981. But they knew the proper end year was 1969. Mr Cole’s guide was copyrighted in 1986 and he too got the start year wrong but he got the end year correct.
Eric
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informazioni sul mio Pan '50 e identificazione VIN

#26

Post by glasorsa »

He, I'm an Italian biker and I own a 1950 Hydra-Glide mod. E - 61 inch. low
compression.

I know this is a very rare model and I would like some of you experts to
tell me more about this model which I know was only in production from
1948-1951.

My VIN is : 50E10186 - apart from the model (E) ed the year (1950) how is reading exactly the rest of numbers ?

I thank everyone for the hospitality

Giovanni
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#27

Post by RUBONE »

Hello Giovanni,
The rest of your number is only the sequence in production that it was made. Since H-D normally started their numbers at 1001 your bike would be the 9186th built during the 1950 model year, very late in the production. The number does not tell anything else about the bike, only the original order form would tell if it was ordered with any special features. The "E" was uncommon in the US and most were export only due to the poor fuel quality available in Europe at the time. Everything about your bike would be the same as an EL except the compression ratio. Without the original order form or a sales receipt it is impossible to say what equipment group it could have come with or if it was equipped for a sidecar.
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#28

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Giovanni, Panhead Models E and ES were made for 1948–50 and originally your engine could have been either of them. Both models were medium compression but the ES had sidecar gearing as shown on part of the 1950 order blank below. However, the S was usually only on the paperwork and normally it wasn't stamped on the engine.

Do you know if the transmission is original to the bike? If the trans is original, is it 4-speed, 3-speed or 3-speed with reverse?

For 1950 Panheads (E, ES, EL, F, FS, FL) the serial numbers were grouped together. For 1950, serial numbers began at 1000 and went beyond 11300 although I doubt they reached 12000.

Obviously your serial number follows the normal format and is within the accepted production range but what do the characters look like? Are they consistent with factory stamping for a 1950 Pan? If you’re not sure then you could post a photo.

What are the crankcase production numbers? If you’re not familiar with them you may find them under each case near the outer edges and somewhat toward the front. These are also known as belly numbers, line-bore numbers and confidential numbers. Even if you have a crankcase guard the numbers should be visible. Check the left case first to get an idea of their location. For 1950 Panheads code numbers 3 and 1 were used at the start of these numbers but if it’s a later-50 model then I’d expect to find code number 1. For example, 150-1234(5). Let us know what you find. Photos would help.

Is anything stamped on top of the cases near the rear engine mounting bolts? You shouldn’t find anything there if everything else is authentic but please check anyway. Photo? Thanks.
Eric

1950.jpg
1950.jpg (104.54 KiB) Viewed 4125 times
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Re: H-D componente originale aggiuntivo che identifica i numeri

#29

Post by glasorsa »

Many thanks to Speeding Big Twin and Rubone for their attention.
As soon as possible I will send you details photos on numbers.
Now as you know we are in quarantine and my Pan is still at the mechanic's in a country close to mine, because I was having a Kit electric start wiped out.
Meanwhile, I can tell you that I purchased my Pan from Boston MA in 2011 but from the documents sent to me there is no order form.
If I understand correctly my model E corresponds to an EL except for being low compression (61 inch.)
In the meantime, I wish send you a photo of my pan but i dont Know as attaching to this post
Thanks again, I would love to meet you.
A hug from Southern Italy
Hello

GLS
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Re: H-D additional original component identifying numbers

#30

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

You're welcome. Yes the only difference between E and EL models is compression. As Robbie mentioned, without the original order form or a sales receipt it is impossible to say what equipment your bike would have come with. Unfortunately the factory no longer has that info available for machines going back that far. I haven’t got copies of any invoices for 1950 Pans but here’s one for a 49EL to give you an idea.
Eric


49 EL invoice.jpg
49 EL invoice.jpg (99.33 KiB) Viewed 4098 times
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