AGM Battery question

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Pepperred57
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AGM Battery question

#1

Post by Pepperred57 »

Hi i wonder if there is someone that use a 6 volt AGM Battery?
If yes what type or brand?
Thanks
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Re: AGM Battery question

#2

Post by Frankenstein »

If you are still using the three brush generator system, the AGM type isn't a good choice. The original 3 brush system invariably depends on the battery to outgass, (accept an overcharge) to help maintain system voltage. A sealed battery is meant to be used in a system where the system voltage is closely regulated externally, and doesn't depend on the battery to limit system voltage.
If you have a 2 brush system, do a google search for sealed lead acid batteries as used in security or emergency lighting systems that will fit in the battery box.
https://www.google.com/search?q=6+volt+ ... irefox-b-1
Here's what a quick google search came up with.
Surely you can come up with more local results if you do a local search.
Good luck
DD
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Re: AGM Battery question

#3

Post by nmaineron »

I have been wanting to ask the same Question.What I am finding is the connection at the battery isn't very sturdy, requiring the spade connectors.I have only seen them on a web site so thats all I have to go on.Any feedback on this?
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Re: AGM Battery question

#4

Post by awander »

What makes you say spade connectors aren't sturdy?

(though I suspect you meant QD connectors, not spade terminals)
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Re: AGM Battery question

#5

Post by VPH-D »

Ricky Noot has a Werker 6v battery number listed on his blog. I am using the 12v battery now, and used the paired 6 volt batteries with good results in the past.
VPH-D
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Re: AGM Battery question

#6

Post by Excalibur »

Some thoughts:

I have used Motobatt MBT6N6 for 2 years with OK result http://www.motobatt.com/MBT6N6 I dislike the wire leads that come directly from the battery casing. I'd much rather screw terminals. It's 6ah is small capacity compared to what a Pan would have had but does provide more than enough current for starting ignition. It's the biggest 6v Motobatt offer. I had the 2 brush 6v genny with regulator at the time.

At one stage I decided to upgrade to a pair of 6v batteries in parallel. I found batteries from a computer/electronics store. The pair fitted OK, standing on their ends. They were spade terminal connectors. They lasted a month before both going open circuit internally. In hindsight I realize these weren't rated for more than 2a - 3a? charge rate. The Pan 6v genny/regulator would easily exceed this current.

I've since upgraded to 12v. I went with Motobatt MBTX7U 8ah and C/E genny.

Murrays' '52 Pan was fitted with a bigger AGM 6v. It stands on its' end. It's done 2.5 years and still going. It has spade terminals which disconnected one time while riding. His is the 3 brush genny.

Points to consider:
Check max charge rating of AGM battery. Some have it printed on the side. Others I see in specifications. Motobatt don't list charge rate that I've found.
If AGM has spade terminals, tape the wire leads to the battery in such a way that they don't "walk off" the spades. Securing battery down will help too.
Theory: Murrays' AGM is lasting because his 3 brush genny trickle charges the battery at a rate that doesn't exceed the max spec. My pair died because my charge rate did exceed what the batteries could handle.

Hope this helps.
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Re: AGM Battery question

#7

Post by Frankenstein »

I've been using 4.5 and 7 AH sealed batteries for years, presently have one from 2013 that I may do a replacement on just to be safe, although it's voltage is still up to snuff. These are on my 12 volt Fan genny conversions. They get plenty of use, averaging 8-10k miles per year on the 3 main bikes. (37ULH,47EL,65FL)
The battery that failed with an internal disconnect that Excalibur mentioned may well have died an unnaturally early death. The failure he mentions is a common failure mode for these types of batteries. I've been exposed to these batteries in my former pre retired profession, and would see it on occasion.
Also, please note that you CAN solder leads directly to the spade lugs on these batteries with no ill effects. I've done it for years. If you're competent with a soldering iron, the heat exposure is brief enough not to cause damage.
You still need to provide strain relief on the soldered connection to prevent stress on the solder joint. My simplistic solution is to cut an inner tube rubber band of appropriate size to stretch over the end of the battery and protect the terminals from shorting, keep the soldered leads from stress, and protect the battery itself from abrasion within the battery compartment.
Inner tube rubber bands are a reminder of my youth. My dad would make rubber band guns from wood for us boys and cut up old tubes from his 500cc Norton International.
DD
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Re: AGM Battery question

#8

Post by nmaineron »

Can they be used in laying on it's side?
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Re: AGM Battery question

#9

Post by 59Panman »

AGM can be laid on their side just not upside down.
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Re: AGM Battery question

#10

Post by PanPal »

I run 3 - 7AH lead acid sealed emergency light batteries. 6 volt, wire in parallel on their sides. No problems for years. 2 brush generator.
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Re: AGM Battery question

#11

Post by Excalibur »

I found the details of the failed 6v battery pair.

Synergy 7.2ah. Initial charge current less than 2.16a. Voltage 7.2v - 7.5v @ 25°C (77°F). Operating temperature range for charging: 0°C - 40°C (32°F -104°F)

Observations:
Low charge rate maximum !!
Also the operature temperature range might be challenged where it's housed with a hot oil tank on 3 sides. For this reason I don't advise packing with insulation type material e.g. polystyrene, etc. On the 12v battery installation, I clamped it down with as much ventilation exposure as possible. The 4 sides of battery casing are exposed so air can circulate.

So, a few details to chew over. Hope this helps.

PS. I'm about to show details of the 12v battery clamp and fittings on my blog. Hopefully get these pics up today.
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Re: AGM Battery question

#12

Post by Excalibur »

Four days late, I finally complete the battery mounting section of my blog.
Image
When everything is original and stock, often things fit just fine. Not so when it's a different style of battery entirely!! Small battery in a big battery box, sounds easy, right? I knew I wanted the battery to be firm and secure. Also I didn't want to use insulative materials because there's enough heat radiating from the hot oil tank let alone what the battery itself makes. Pic shows one way of doing it though I do have a big chrome cover which hides everything from fender-to-seat-post.
Anyway, more details on the blog for those interested. (Head to: Electrical, Battery, 12v.. page). Hope this helps.
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Re: AGM Battery question

#13

Post by nmaineron »

Theres a store "Batteries and Bulbs" which I payed a visit to yesterday. They had a good line of 6V Duracell AGM,I was interested in the 7AH, it's about 2" wide , 5" long and high. 2 would work well I think.
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Re: AGM Battery question

#14

Post by Frankenstein »

Excellent workmanship! nice mount. Free air around the battery should help keep it's temperature down.
I would suggest that the battery that failed internally was probably due to a mechanical fault when manufactured. I've seen this failure mode several times, usually an infant mortality such as you suffered. If you consider that 18ga wire is rated for 10 amps then it's unlikely that the interconnects within the battery are of smaller conductivity than an equivalent 18ga piece of copper, even if they are made of lead. I do suspect that the vibration from their location can contribute to failure of a faulty interconnect made at manufacture. Keep in mind also that the symptom of exceed recommended charge rates is outgassing, as the battery chemistry recombination process cannot keep up with the release of hydrogen and oxygen from the charge process. Further, out gassing is most pronounced in the last 20% of the charging process, when the battery's terminal voltage has reached a high enough voltage that in our circumstances, the generator's output to the battery is being limited by the voltage regulator to something less than the full 10 amps.
Although the generators used on a pan are capable of charging at 10a, unless the battery was deeply discharged, it would rarely see that full current. A couple of amps trickle would be more likely, but that would depend of the current and voltage regulation provided by the regulator. CE supplies their small battery version of their regulator, which limits output voltage to a slightly lower level than their standard model just for this reason.
I will admit my personal experience is limited to 32E's and Fan generators converted to 12 volts , both controlled by my own homebuilt regulators, which are adjustable. I generally set them for about 14.4v, which seems to keep the system happy.
As usual, I've gone into far more detail than most are interested in, but hopefully it's been helpful to some, at least.
DD
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