Can we tell anything from the last 4 digits of the engine number?
Mine is 57FL@38@
HAd a look on the knowledge base but can't find a definitive answer
Last 4 digits
-
- Moderator
- Senior Member
- Posts: 8413
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am
- Bikes: Multiple H-D, Ducati, BMW, Triumph, BSA,...
- Has thanked: 484 times
- Been thanked: 2958 times
Re: Last 4 digits
Basic answer is no, you cannot.
The only thing that the last 4 digits tell you is the approximate place in the production timeline it is. If production numbering starts at 1000 (most years do) and there were a total of some known number of units built you can determine whether it is early, mid, or late year production. Remember that production was not consistent throughout the year and was heavier at the beginning of the selling season to be able to supply dealers orders. It dropped off through the year.
The numbers are not any kind of code, just consecutive numbers. Also keep in mind that engines were numbered in families, so all FL and FLH models are intermingled as far as numbers go, and are unique. There are not examples of both with the same number. Occasionally a Service Bulletin (Shop Dope) was printed with a new feature starting at a certain number, however even there there are exceptions and anomalies due to manufacturing and quality control reasons.
The only thing that the last 4 digits tell you is the approximate place in the production timeline it is. If production numbering starts at 1000 (most years do) and there were a total of some known number of units built you can determine whether it is early, mid, or late year production. Remember that production was not consistent throughout the year and was heavier at the beginning of the selling season to be able to supply dealers orders. It dropped off through the year.
The numbers are not any kind of code, just consecutive numbers. Also keep in mind that engines were numbered in families, so all FL and FLH models are intermingled as far as numbers go, and are unique. There are not examples of both with the same number. Occasionally a Service Bulletin (Shop Dope) was printed with a new feature starting at a certain number, however even there there are exceptions and anomalies due to manufacturing and quality control reasons.
-
- Member
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:33 am
- Bikes: 1957 FL. Was very original but is now sold.
58 PanShovel - Location: Brixton London
- Has thanked: 46 times
- Been thanked: 2 times
- Contact:
Re: Last 4 digits
RUBONE wrote:Basic answer is no, you cannot.
The only thing that the last 4 digits tell you is the approximate place in the production timeline it is. If production numbering starts at 1000 (most years do) and there were a total of some known number of units built you can determine whether it is early, mid, or late year production. Remember that production was not consistent throughout the year and was heavier at the beginning of the selling season to be able to supply dealers orders. It dropped off through the year.
The numbers are not any kind of code, just consecutive numbers. Also keep in mind that engines were numbered in families, so all FL and FLH models are intermingled as far as numbers go, and are unique. There are not examples of both with the same number. Occasionally a Service Bulletin (Shop Dope) was printed with a new feature starting at a certain number, however even there there are exceptions and anomalies due to manufacturing and quality control reasons.
Thanks mate! Was wondering if that was the case...
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1261
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:29 am
- Bikes: H-D
- Location: Western Australia
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 310 times
Re: Last 4 digits
Jimmi, is this the engine stamped 57FL that you first told us about in Nov-Dec 2014? If it is then we know your SN range. SNs for 57 Pans began at 1001 but I do not know the exact production total. H-D published figures in The Legend Begins and although they are not to be regarded as totally accurate, your SN would seem to indicate a very late 57 model. But is your engine really a 57? And is it really an FL? If it isn’t a 57 then info from the SN won’t help.
As mentioned some time ago, there may be a problem with your number boss and some of the characters in your SN are not consistent with factory stamping for 1957 models. Do you recall what I said about several of those characters?
Four types of Pans for 1957: FL, FLF, FLH and FLHF. All these letters may appear on the paperwork but engines were only stamped FL or FLH. Anyway, because your SN does not look authentic we cannot even say if your sequence number was originally assigned to an FL/FLF. It could have even been originally assigned to an FLH/FLHF.
In 2014 another member asked if the belly numbers (BNs) matched. You said the bike has matching numbers so I asked if you meant the BNs matched each other. Do they? Are they 1957? But even if they are stamped as 57s, do you know what authentic belly numbers look like?
We also asked about 7s or Hs stamped on top of each crankcase half near the rear engine mounting bolts. This was to find out whether the cases were originally for an FL/FLF or an FLH/FLHF, and it may also have helped regarding model year of the cases.
Later you replied, saying any of the numbers issues are not even worth worrying about. You said you will look at them at some point for your own assurance. What did you find?
If you really want to ID the engine then there is plenty of help available on this forum. May I suggest a clear photo of each BN to begin with. (Cover a couple of sequence characters if you wish.)
Eric
As mentioned some time ago, there may be a problem with your number boss and some of the characters in your SN are not consistent with factory stamping for 1957 models. Do you recall what I said about several of those characters?
Four types of Pans for 1957: FL, FLF, FLH and FLHF. All these letters may appear on the paperwork but engines were only stamped FL or FLH. Anyway, because your SN does not look authentic we cannot even say if your sequence number was originally assigned to an FL/FLF. It could have even been originally assigned to an FLH/FLHF.
In 2014 another member asked if the belly numbers (BNs) matched. You said the bike has matching numbers so I asked if you meant the BNs matched each other. Do they? Are they 1957? But even if they are stamped as 57s, do you know what authentic belly numbers look like?
We also asked about 7s or Hs stamped on top of each crankcase half near the rear engine mounting bolts. This was to find out whether the cases were originally for an FL/FLF or an FLH/FLHF, and it may also have helped regarding model year of the cases.
Later you replied, saying any of the numbers issues are not even worth worrying about. You said you will look at them at some point for your own assurance. What did you find?
If you really want to ID the engine then there is plenty of help available on this forum. May I suggest a clear photo of each BN to begin with. (Cover a couple of sequence characters if you wish.)
Eric