Engine oil

Lubrication System (oil feed pump and scavenger pump, reservoir, filter, and lines)
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fourthgear
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Engine oil

#1

Post by fourthgear »

Description: which engine oil to use in my 65 Pan

This topic has probably been beating to death, but I'm staggering on which engine oil to use in my 65 Pan. Average riding temps around my part is 65 to 90 with highway speeds. I tried Synthetic and once it heated up, went really thin like whiskey. Maybe I panicked to early and flushed it out, but what are you guy's running, HD oil, 20/50, Straight 50, or Synthetic 50.
Would you break a new engine in on Synthetic oil, Ive heard not to, but never given a reason why. I'm leaning back towards Synthetic 50 or HD50 ? Not sure..need advice. ???
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Re: Engine oil

#2

Post by Cotten »

Any oil is better than no oil. Clean oil is better than dirty.
Reality check: Synth is too damn expensive to change often. Who cares if it lasts millions of miles if it gets dirty?
And contrary to everyone's barroom buddies, "moreisbetter" does not apply to oil weight or viscosity. Especially for fresh motors.

40 wt is fine for casual riding in mild weather.
50 is pretty much the standard all-purpose oil.
60 wt should be reserved for severe service, hot weather, touring, etc.
70 is for tired old warhorses on their last legs, and even my wife's tortured '65 (last top end about '86, lower end was about '81) with uncounted miles of sidecar duty, still does fine on 50 wt. Smells real bad though.
There is probably nothing wrong with multigrades, or even dimestore generics, as long as you change it often.
I only avoid Pennsylvania oils and boutique-priced designer cans.
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Re: Engine oil

#3

Post by Sidecar »

Cotten gives good advice (as usual).

I do not like the "thinness" of 20/50 in hot weather so I stopped using it. It scares me...
I run 50 unless it gets real warm and then I jump to 60.
VintageTwin
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Re: Engine oil

#4

Post by VintageTwin »

I prefer Harley-Davidson 20-50W. I've run it exclusively in my re-manufactured '59 Pan motor for 33,000 miles. Hard miles. Hot desert, high altutude, sea level, summer and winter, just to see how many miles I could get out of my motor. Even with the option of alternating between Harley 60 grade (not 60 wt., 60 grade, what ever that weight may be on an SAE rating), and 20-50, I stuck with 20-50. I buy it by the case and use the oil boxes for parts stashes. I love Harley oil, man....I don't care what it cost. I like the way it smells when my motor back fires through the carburetor. Blue smoke....yeah buddy!....wave my hand through the clouds billowing up from under the gas tank. Onlookers think the motorcyles on fire!......fire!!..fire!!...crazy motorcyclist....."You'll get killed on that thing!!!".....Yi..Hi!!.......death ride.
fourthgear
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Re: Engine oil

#5

Post by fourthgear »

Cotton is dead on about clean oil , gotta be clean, I like Synthetic myself , I used Amsoil multi grade up north in my 69, down here in the sun shine state I will be going to straight 50 SYN. in my 49.I also use Syn. in my trucks and get better gas mileage out of them thats a fact. Back in the old days I used HD only, I guess I'm a convert!!!!!
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Re: Engine oil

#6

Post by DuoDave »

As for using synthetics during break in, it's claimed that synthetic oils don't allow the various moving parts to wear sufficiently to fully bed in. Sounds to me like propoganda by the synthetic manufacturers, so make up your own mind. As cotten says, any oil is better than no oil, but better to stick with a quality brand and change it regularly.
sleeper
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Re: Engine oil

#7

Post by sleeper »

I'll stick to my "Mobil 1" 20-50 Full Syn. It's been good to my Bikes...
Plus I get it at cost +10%. :)
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Re: Engine oil

#8

Post by Jack_Hester »

Billy -

Did you make your initial break-in (on your Servi) on synthetic? As long as I have been running syn oil (many, many years), I've never used it for break-in. I plan to do so, with my WLA, but it would be good to hear that someone else has done it.

Jack
fourthgear
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Re: Engine oil

#9

Post by fourthgear »

I also would like to know, Jack because I plan to do the same thing with my 49 . I think one reason to use a std oil is its cheaper to change it alot during break in just to get all the shit that might be floating around in there from assembly. What do you all think .
VintageTwin
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Re: Engine oil

#10

Post by VintageTwin »

Here's the synthetic oil info Jerry Heinz sent me from H-D in 1999. "A synthetic oil is probably the best multi-purpose oil available. It will cover more oil applications than any other. The more you pay for it the better the performance. They are, however, general oils. The best synthethic oil in a Harley-Davidson is one designed for long life in a diesel engine, but it was still designed for a diesel engine application and not a Harley engine. Although it did give good results, it is still not as good as oil designed exclusively for the Harley engine.
Therefore, if you want the best oil for your Harley-Davidson engine, buy and use the oil designed for it. Why waste money on an oil that is better than any other in a diesel engine when you do not run a diesel engine?"
Pretty bold of Jerry to include in his message, that synthetic oil was even an option, in my opinion. If synthetic were as good as the petroleum oil Harley oil makes, I think they'd sell some for their motors. Retail cost never stopped Harley from making anything in the past. In fact, they know if they did make synthetic, customers would buy a case and strap it to their buddy seat, just to show-off leisure class, conspicuous consumption. He doesn't list motor break-in problems using synthetic oil with a warning. The report they sent me is fairly extensive, about base oils and blends, Sun Oil's involvement and the Harley oil history (replete with testimonials, etc.) Valves sticking in hot Shovelhead touring machines began in the late 70's, excessive heat which lead to piston ring and exhaust valve heat rising to critical levels. "When the oil broke down, carbon formed and lubrication decreased and without warning the valve would stick. The problem became more severe as gasoline formulations changed to meet stricter environmental regulations."
fourthgear
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Re: Engine oil

#11

Post by fourthgear »

plumber
Do you think they used Syn for diesel's because of tolerances in the motor ,cause them Diesels are loose , but what about HD's being air cooled , that has to add some stress to the oil . I have a friend whos father is a retired Amsoil Engineer , I need to pick his brain to maybe answer some of our Questions . When I here back from him I'll post it here .
VintageTwin
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Re: Engine oil

#12

Post by VintageTwin »

Jerry Heinz agreed with us (Stettler actually, I'm just a cub-reporter) that they key function of the Sun Oil formulation is to prevent the one thing that will initiate wear on an air-cooled Harley motor. Their oil will not break down under high heat and allow the crankcase bearings to "skate" on a race. If the bearing skates, it will create a flat spot on the roller and the roller will always return to that flat spot. A flat-spot roller is where the motors begins to eventually fail. They have me convinced. I'll only use Harley oil.
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Re: Engine oil

#13

Post by Cotten »

Most flat-sided roller destructions are attributed to using extremely heavy oil in a tight, fresh motor.
Nearly every vintage lower end failure I have examined involved spalling of the hardening from the pin and rodraces, often leaving uniform wear upon the rollers.
So vintage oils must have prevented skating quite well!
Oil sees burning heat only at the hottest part of the motor (if something is amiss!), and that is not the main crank.
The main crank is where there is great shear upon the oil, breaking down the oils long chains of molecules mechanically.
But oil does not destruct instantly, it gets used up slowly as it is circulated, taking many many miles just to turn over the volume in the tank. (Approximately fourteen gallons have to be recirculated to completely mix and purge the initial contents.)
So if you are paranoid about your oil, just change it more often!

(Personally, I avoid Pennsylvania oils with high sulphur content. But I like to collect the cardboard cans. I have full Castrol Semi-Synth in cardboard to trade!)
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Re: Engine oil

#14

Post by sleeper »

Plumber-
this one's for you, FYI

HD was against Synthetics, "Until they came out with their "Own Brand" Syn3 = Fully synthetic. Some years back...
It is used in motor, trans & primary.
So once they realized that synthetics are superior, they
wanted in on the $$action.. ;D
Now HD pushes the use of Synthetic oil (their brand)
of course.. As the greatest thing since 'sliced bread' $$$$ Ha Ha!!
I'll stick to Mobil 1 or Amsoil, I have extensive reports too
VintageTwin
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Re: Engine oil

#15

Post by VintageTwin »

Yeah Billy...the ol' oil issue usually comes down to personal preference. I only buy Harely oil for the cartons they come in. ;D I have about 6 or 7 lining the top shelf in my shop....and like seeing the bar & shields all in a row when I walk in every morning.
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