How does sumping end?

Lubrication System (oil feed pump and scavenger pump, reservoir, filter, and lines)
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64duo
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How does sumping end?

#1

Post by 64duo »

OK, My bike's been on the stand now for 2 winters without turning over. (please don't ask). I was getting it close to being ready to ride, nearly finished. While on the lift stand I have kicked thru the kicker about 8 times. Next day when I went out to the garage a 2 foot circle of oil on the ground. Not obvious where it was coming from, so I removed the skid plate and still couldnt pin it down. Off came the outer primary, my bike has a belt primary, so it looks clearly like its coming from the breather area behind the inner primary which I haven't removed. I cleaned up the mess and still over the next few days pretty much it seemed like it emptied the entire oil tank. Could it all be coming past the check ball endlessly? Apparently I'm guessing that over the 2 years it seeped past until it was all in the case. I never looked in the oil bag all that time so I just assume that is what happened.
So, if the bike were now running would all that remaining oil just come out the beather faster and be finished puking? Anything you can do once you discover the sumping issue to deal with the misplaced oil?
Guest

#2

Post by Guest »

Same happened to me long ago.
Put in fresh oil, fired it up, no more problems.
Guess the ball gets stuck.
King
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#3

Post by King »

Hi Duo
Could be as Guest suggested that the ball was just stuck. Years ago, after the winter, I would take a block of wood and a hammer and tap the oil pump body. That did the trick for a while. But it sounds like you filled the tank and it still the oil ran to the sump. I would first drain out what is left in the oil bag then remove the cap to the check valve and see if there is some crud on the ball or seat. Getting the ball out is a bit tricky. I use a very weakly magnetized circular file to lift it out. Do not use a strong magnet as it will magnetize the ball and that's not good. Look for pitting on the ball and replace it if found. But if the ball is pitted then the seat most likely is too and will have to be resurfaced.
Then put some oil back in and carefully watch the oil level in the bag over the next week or so.
While we are on the topic I'll throw out my way of reading the oil level in the tank. I'm a bit anal on maintaining the oil at about one inch below the filler (so the return line and vent are clear) and have always thought the Harley dip stick was next to useless for reading the oil level. So, I knock off a few of those wooden stir sticks like you get at Starbucks. Then I mark a line on one end and stick the stick into the tank lining the mark up with the rim of the filler hole. The oil level is very apparent. I mark the level and then periodically use the stick to check for sumping.
If the oil level still goes down after you clean the ball and seat, then you most likely have a worn seat and ball. There are several good threads here on the cure of sumping, so search the Knowledge Base. Mr. Cotten recommends burnishing the seat in the pump and has a nifty tool to do the job but it is a bit pricy. My 51 FL was sumping at the rate of a pint per week when idle, so this winter I removed the pump and had the seat lapped with a ball welded on a rod and a new ball and spring installed. So far so good, sumping has stopped. BTW getting the pump back on the bike with engine in frame is a true bear.
The other cure is to ride the bike every day so it doesn't get the chance to sump.
Before trying to start the bike I would kick it over and try and drain out as much oil from the sump as possible. Otherwise I will be hard to start and you could foul the plugs.
Good luck with curing the problem. With the price of oil now it's better to keep it in the tank and off the floor.
King
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#4

Post by Ohio-Rider »

Sumping is not un-common after setting that long. I'd put some cardboard down, pull the plugs and kick it over about 20 times. Fill the oil tank leaving it about a 1/2 quart low. Start the engine and go for a ride. More times than not the check valve will re-seat its self. If sumping continues to be a problem than burnishing the seat will need to be done.

In other words, it's no big thing. Just ride her more often.
64duo
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#5

Post by 64duo »

Ohio-Rider wrote:In other words, it's no big thing. Just ride her more often.
Well said, shame on me. :oops:

I have been doing some mechanicing within my ability over these last 2 winters. A Cotton rebuilt linkert, manifold, replaced handlebars & internals etc. I also need to find a less demanding job.
At Cottons suggestion elsewhere I did in fact order a burnisher tool from Steve at Ressurrection Cycle. It should be showing up anyday.
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#6

Post by VintageTwin »

I didn't read all the post's above, but if your motor sumps, just crank it up and the oil will be returned to the tank. No big deal, except put a pan under the machine, because part of the oil will dump out the breather.
This used to happen on my '71 XLCH. Don't worry, it's designed to sump and replenish. Yeah check balls are the problem.
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