panhead oil pump

[chadu607]

Looking for advice. the oil pump on the panhead works, but the hole where the pressure sender is supposed to go is stripped. I have the correct drill and tap to re-create the threads.. it's a plumbers thread.



It had a bolt stuck in the hole and what appeared to be jbweld or something like that holding it in, but it just came out easily..
so i figure one way to fix it is to fill the hole with weld, drill it out and re-tap.. .. so i found a thick peice of steel in my shop and drilled a hole about the same size, filled it with weld frim my MIG using E71T-GS .035" Dia flux core wire.. Next I tried to drill out the weld using my cobalt drills and they barely even scratched it.. so i'm happy i didnt use the oil pump as the test subject!..

so my question is, what is a good way to fix this thread.. from what i understand i can't use heli-coils since it's a tapered tap.. also, maybe the weld wire i'm using is too hard? any suggestion on wire that is drillable and tapable? I will need to do this on the frame of the harley too where the foot shift bolts to the frame.. two of the three bolts don't make a good tight fit and will strip out if i put too much torque on it..

Thanks

ChadU607

[1950Panhead]

Lincoln makes rod for cast iron welding, this should be soft enought to drill and tap.
Some old timers use coat hangers for welding rod (stick), this is also soft.
Perhapos there is softer wire for MIG or TIG? I don't know.
Jerry

[Cotten]

chadu607!

Any "welding" at all will make a serious mess of it.

Have you tried your 1/8"-27 tap already?
Your instincts that deepening the hole for a little more reach for the tap would be my choice as well, as there is no geometry involved.

Even if the threads were much worse, a thin, tap-able deposit of a low-temp silver solder would do much less damage than any conventional welding.

If the casting is cast iron, it would "chill" to a difficult hardness with a weld.
If the casting is cast steel, it would remain workable.

I honestly do not know if the MoCo stayed with one or the other through the Pan era, as I have encountered both on earlier models.
If touching an edge of the casting to a grinder produces orange sparks, I would guess it is steel.

.....Cotten

[RUBONE]

What year are you talking about? You do know that the early pumps were a straight machine thread, right? Not pipe taper?
Robbie

[chadu607]

Cotten.

the part doesn't have enough meat to tap with the 1/8-27.. it pretty much drops to the bottom.. i did a little research and came to the same conclusion that my 'test' weld was too hard because of that chilling effect.. the iron i used was a peice of an anvil that i had laying around..

i'm familiar with solder since i come from an electronics background.. all i have laying around is that 60-40 alloy used for repairing circuits.. and solder for copper pipes from doing plumbing repair around the house..

what solder alloy would you suggest? i'm thinking filling up the hole, drilling and taping it will work as simply trying to put on a coat will probably cause the solder to flow out the bottom anyway..

one thing to note too.. in the past the bottom of the oil pump was brazed in a previous repair.. not leaking so it's a good fix.. maybe that's a good idea too for this issue..

thanks i appreciate the ideas.. my mind is buzzing now..

[chadu607]

Robbie.. the pump is off a 60FL engine.. although my father left me a 48-57 Panhead Service manual and the one in there is exactly what's on my engine. .. i'm no harley historian, but it appears to be the same pump used on the '60.. and also jpcycles has it as the oem for that year

also, the local motorcycle shop tole me it was a plumber tap. not straight.. unfortunately, i can't find much more information on it than that.

chad

[chadu607]

according to the Clymer manual it's a Type III Cast Iron pump....

[RUBONE]

It is a straight thread and the fitting uses a sealing washer. No need to believe me, just look in your parts books, the Colony made replacement fittings ( and all the other aftermarket), and every OEM fitting out there!
More good parts have been ruined from misguided repairs than any other single reason!
Just sayin'
Robbie

[58flh]

CHADU!---By what Im reading that your saying, The pump without a doubt is DOABLE!--About that other fix I saw on the bottom!--If it was a non-leaker which im leaning towards, cause the sender was blocked-off with a bolt!--So obviously POPS ran the bike!, according to your memory!--(cool).--Nice to have memorys like that!.--If its giving you problems, you can get a body from a swapmeet -(cheap)--for that fact you can get a OEM-PUMP-swapmeet & rebuild it!--just throwing some alternative options out there!--The JP-Cycles 1 that you mentioned looks good,-but it all does on advertising!-besides beware when ordering from JP!--Not that you wont get refunded for bad parts, I have had good exp. with them!,--Until it counted, like motor internals,& If you do go for a NEW pump,--ASK to speak to a KNOWLEDGEABLE PERSON!--As there switchboard is off the hook & they have ALOT of PHONE-ANSWERING PEOPLE!--KNOW the PART #!!!!--Im just giving you my last exp. about a month ago!---RICHIE

[George Greer]

JP.........

Won't deal with them.

Tech dept ... hahaha...

When I called them and asked a specific question about a part.......I was told Yep, that is exactly what you need.

Based on that info, I ordered the part.............well...It was NOT as advertised, nor was it the correct part as advised as by the "Tech Dept"...

So, I called them again to see what was up.......

Tech Dept reply to my inquiry: Anyone that can read a schematic and use a multimeter SHOULD be able to figure it out to make it work. Screw that, and them

I can read schematics, aviation engineers drawings instructions, and I have several Fluke Multimeters, and in my profession it is a must.

Again...

Don't piss down my back and then tell me its raining.

Sorry for the rant..... I can't honestly say that I would ever support a company such as them.

I'll first search for NOS parts, or find used parts.

[58flh]

HEY GEORGE!---YEP your right, & I was referring to that knuckle-ex.-guide they sent me!-But the other 3 were correct!--GO FIGURE!---I should of SHOUTED it OUT! .--But you are CORRECT my friend!---RICHIE

[Kuda]

Looking for advice. the oil pump on the panhead works, but the hole where the pressure sender is supposed to go is stripped.

I will need to do this on the frame of the harley too where the foot shift bolts to the frame.. two of the three bolts don't make a good tight fit and will strip out if i put too much torque on it.

On the oil pump, I think a soft solder should work just fine, it's not like these pumps put out any real pressure. Just be sure to prevent the solder from plugging the hole or (shudder) getting into the oil passage.

As for the foot shift bolts, you need a Time-sert in there. I've fixed a couple that way, it's a very strong, permanent repair that's undetectable when everything's assembled.

-Kuda
'49 panchop

[Cotten]

ChadU607!

Even if the hole has been wallowed with a pipe tap, you may be able to install a 3/8"-24 helicoil, and return to original thread, without any soldering.

A seal washer, as Robbie noted, will be critical, of course (as well as the surface it butts against).

Some silver-solders are quite soft, by the way.

....Cotten

[Limey_Dave]

I'd go for a Time Sert in the pump.
A thin smear of Permatex under the insert flange and it will be perfect.

[UPSROD]

I believe the 1/8 inch pipe thread started sometime in mid 1958, should be what is on a 1960 oil pump.