hydra glide oil pump

Lubrication System (oil feed pump and scavenger pump, reservoir, filter, and lines)
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uwiik
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hydra glide oil pump

#1

Post by uwiik »

Hi All! Been lurking here for a while to feed my passion for vintage......Amazing forum with heaps of collective knowledge...Awesome... This is my first post here as i am in the process of obtaining a 1949/50 hydra glide. The bike will be here next week and i cant wait to tear down to it and start rebuilding... :D
Very very excited.....

I have some questions regarding small issues i found from the old owner and while inspecting the bike.
The bike have the usual problem with early pan, lack of oiling to the top when hot which result in engine noise when hot.
It start easy with 2 prime kicks and one fire kick when cold, no smoke no noise, but when it hot the bike would run rough and noisy, wait for it to cool down, then smooth again...
After some research on this forum I came to the conclusion that it is caused by not enough oil up top from the hydraulic pushrod from the early type system, so i planned on ordering a set of jims solid pushrod and leave my OEM solid lifters/tappet as is it....Did i diagnose it right? However, the owner insisted that it wasn't like that before and the problem only appear after he broke the original pre 53 oil pump and replaced it with post 54/newer panhead oil pump? To my understanding again from research on this forum, all different panheads oil pumps (pre 65) are interchangeable between each other without requiring any mods? Am i correct? If not, please someone correct me.

Looking for a sound advices from the experts here, and thanks a bunch in advance

Dwi
uwiik
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#2

Post by uwiik »

Hellooooo.... anyone care to chip in?
1950Panhead
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#3

Post by 1950Panhead »

I have a 50 panhead, my pushrods and lifters rattled when the engine was hot, I installed solid push rods.
There are four panhead pumps, 48-49, 50-52, 53-54, 55-67, there are minor internal and external differences.
In late 52 the lifters were moved from the top of the pushrods to the lifter block, all these changes were to fix/improve lifter problems.
When all the parts are new any of these will work, as the parts wear the lifters will rattle.
Jerry
uwiik
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#4

Post by uwiik »

1950Panhead wrote:I have a 50 panhead, my pushrods and lifters rattled when the engine was hot, I installed solid push rods.
There are four panhead pumps, 48-49, 50-52, 53-54, 55-67, there are minor internal and external differences.
In late 52 the lifters were moved from the top of the pushrods to the lifter block, all these changes were to fix/improve lifter problems.
When all the parts are new any of these will work, as the parts wear the lifters will rattle.
Jerry
Jerry,
I guess the sound of rattling lifters on panhead should be close to how would it sound in Evo or TC engine? If so, I really think the sound I am hearing is so much more than simple sound of collapsing hydraulic pushrods/lifters.... Funny thing is, it always goes back to easy starting sweet sounding engine when cold...I might have to pull the head cover when it's here in a week and see if oil is going up there..... Your take on this?

OK 4 different pumps among the panheads, I guess the first one being an exact knuckle pump? so, are they interchangeable between each other? Any mods I should do? I have tried "search" but still haven't got the definite answer.... I don't know, I think vibrations has started to take tolls on my brain :cry:

Thanks a bunch
TimmyV
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#5

Post by TimmyV »

uwiik wrote:
Jerry,
I guess the sound of rattling lifters on panhead should be close to how would it sound in Evo or TC engine? If so, I really think the sound I am hearing is so much more than simple sound of collapsing hydraulic pushrods/lifters.... Funny thing is, it always goes back to easy starting sweet sounding engine when cold...I might have to pull the head cover when it's here in a week and see if oil is going up there..... Your take on this?
You may already be aware of this, but maybe not. You cannot remove the rocker covers on a Panhead with the heads on the motor & the motor in the frame. So if your plan was to remove the covers & run the motor to see if oil is getting to the top end...it's a bit more involved than simply removing the covers. Best of luck to you uwiik !
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#6

Post by Hog54 »

First of all.find out what weight oil is in it.Are you running the bike in arizona or the east coast like me?I run straight 60 wt or 70 wt when I can get it and my pan doesnt make anymore noise than my shovel when its hot.There really isnt much difference between the pumps as far as oil getting to the heads nomatter which one you use.I run a new S&S pump and didnt notice any difference in the pressure from the original.Hydraulic lifters dont make noise unless theres no oil getting to them.Check the tappet screen first and then check the passages.I remember when I bought my lowrider brand new it had 20/50 oil in it and when it got warm,it definitely had tappet noise.Straight 60 wt fixed that.
1951 adam
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#7

Post by 1951 adam »

Is it a 49 or a 50? The first style pump 48 had the knuck style rotor , it was recalled by the factory due to overoiling on the panheads, a kit was sent out to dealers to block off the passages to the outer cast cover that housed the rotor. if its an early pump, there is an adjustment for the pressure regulator screw, look at the photos I posted.... thats a 48 pump. the 49 early 50 style still had the cast cover, but the passages were no longer in the pump body...no more blockoff plate , and the outer cover had no cut out for rotor, early cases had no oil screen. not sure of of initial reg. adj, oil gauge is best bet....good luck. Adam
uwiik
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#8

Post by uwiik »

TimmyV wrote:
uwiik wrote:
Jerry,
I guess the sound of rattling lifters on panhead should be close to how would it sound in Evo or TC engine? If so, I really think the sound I am hearing is so much more than simple sound of collapsing hydraulic pushrods/lifters.... Funny thing is, it always goes back to easy starting sweet sounding engine when cold...I might have to pull the head cover when it's here in a week and see if oil is going up there..... Your take on this?
You may already be aware of this, but maybe not. You cannot remove the rocker covers on a Panhead with the heads on the motor & the motor in the frame. So if your plan was to remove the covers & run the motor to see if oil is getting to the top end...it's a bit more involved than simply removing the covers. Best of luck to you uwiik !
No I am not aware of this. Like I said I have zero mechanical experience with pre evo bike. Then what is the easiest way to check for oil flow to the top? Thanks a lot, I learn something new everyday...
uwiik
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#9

Post by uwiik »

Hog54 wrote:First of all.find out what weight oil is in it.Are you running the bike in arizona or the east coast like me?I run straight 60 wt or 70 wt when I can get it and my pan doesnt make anymore noise than my shovel when its hot.There really isnt much difference between the pumps as far as oil getting to the heads nomatter which one you use.I run a new S&S pump and didnt notice any difference in the pressure from the original.Hydraulic lifters dont make noise unless theres no oil getting to them.Check the tappet screen first and then check the passages.I remember when I bought my lowrider brand new it had 20/50 oil in it and when it got warm,it definitely had tappet noise.Straight 60 wt fixed that.
I don't know, for some reason my location does not show up in my profile. I am from the tropical far east, Indonesia to be exact. Notorious super traffic jam and easily 100F+ on dry season... I run full syn 60 on all my V twin....
I am pretty sure my problem is oil related. passage, pump, or hydraulic pushrod from the early type. It still start superbly when cold but a B!*$# when hot...
uwiik
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#10

Post by uwiik »

1951 adam wrote:Is it a 49 or a 50? The first style pump 48 had the knuck style rotor , it was recalled by the factory due to overoiling on the panheads, a kit was sent out to dealers to block off the passages to the outer cast cover that housed the rotor. if its an early pump, there is an adjustment for the pressure regulator screw, look at the photos I posted.... thats a 48 pump. the 49 early 50 style still had the cast cover, but the passages were no longer in the pump body...no more blockoff plate , and the outer cover had no cut out for rotor, early cases had no oil screen. not sure of of initial reg. adj, oil gauge is best bet....good luck. Adam
The pump has been replaced by newer duo glide pump. I am not sure which year because I haven't tear down the bike. In fact, the bike won't be in my garage until next week. I'll post some pictures when I got into it.
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#11

Post by Hauula Pan »

Oiling has always been an issue with panheads. They rely more on volume than pressure as you will find out. They will have plenty of pressure when cold & it will slowly drop as the motor & oil warm up. The rule is if you have oil returning to the tank everything is fine. But you could swap out shovel head 6/24 gears for the pan's 5/25 on a 54 & up & over drive the pump, common cheap mod. But the 53 & earlier have a tapered pinion & the shovel gears don't work, but now S&S makes a set of 6/24's that will work with the earlier pumps. Gives a bit more pressure & volume. Also where you live you're going to want to run 70 weight. I used to run 60 on the mainland but switched to 70 for the islands & my 52FL was much happier & quieter.
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Re: hydra glide oil pump

#12

Post by Hog54 »

Yeah if your riding around in 100 degree temps in traffic everyday,I doubt youll ever get it to be quiet.Mine is perfectly quiet till it hits 90 degrees,which isnt too often around here.Get the heaviest oil you can buy.60 WT is like water in 100 degree temps.Harleys were not made for traffic at all.The last time I got caught in beach traffic on a 90 degree day on my lowrider,I not only had tapping noise but lost my clutch too.The clutch disks will expand when they heat up and you wont even be able to shift.
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