Noisy Lifter/Valves

[jank1331]

Happy 4th,
I need some help from all of you once again! I'm noticing the front lifters/valves making a lot of noise after fully warmed up, mainly highway miles. If I cruise around town, it doesn't seem to sound bad, a bit noisy but not too bad. It's after the sustained RPMs that it almost sounds like a Sherman tank! After it fully cools down, the next day it sounds back to “normal” when its cool. Ok, the goods:


58 (not stock) FLH, with 4 speed
Stock heads
New top end rebuild with 1200 miles
Hydraulic lifters
Aluminum pushrods, adjusted 3 turns from snug
Running 60w HD oil -- Changed from 50w to 60w to see if it would help, it doesn't
Has good oil flow


It sounds to me that with the expansion after fully warmed, the pushrods either move too much. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

[steve_wood]

When you say that the pushrods are adjusted 3.5 turns from snug, I'm assuming you mean you made them tighter. Perhaps they're still a bit loose? Maybe another 2 turns?

[steve_wood]

Do you have a mechanics stethoscope? It would help if you could nail down exactly where the noise is coming from.

[jank1331]

When you say that the pushrods are adjusted 3.5 turns from snug, I'm assuming you mean you made them tighter. Perhaps they're still a bit loose? Maybe another 2 turns?

I didnt make anything tighter, I just adjusted them to that spec. I think the shop manual says 4 turns for stock, but these are subposed to be 3 1/2 turns from "snug". And they have been at this adjustment for 600 miles without this kind of sound until recently. something lossening up? Maybe Ill readjust them.

[Cotten]

Steve!

Your aluminum pushrods most likely have a different pitch to the adjustor threads, accounting for the different turns from 'snug".

So I really must ask:
You are not running an Andrews A-grind cam, are you?

....Cotten

[jank1331]

Your aluminum pushrods most likely have a different pitch to the adjustor threads, accounting for the different turns from 'snug".

So I really must ask:
You are not running an Andrews A-grind cam, are you?

....Cotten

Cotten,
I do not know what kind of cam is in the motor. The bottom end has not been touched since Ive had it and the previous owner did not know what cam it had--"all Stock" internally. Will an A grind produce these symptoms in just the front head only when hot? The rear head sounds ok to me, just the front. Will trying an extra 1/2 turn do any damage?

[Bosheff]

It has been my experience that some Andrews cams of non stock specs have a problem with the front exhaust keeping it's adjustment. This I believe is attributed to the angle of rocker arm cup to the cam follower which in turn requires a longer pushrod. Feel free to correct or add or comment....bosheff

[jank1331]

It has been my experience that some Andrews cams of non stock specs have a problem with the front exhaust keeping it's adjustment. This I believe is attributed to the angle of rocker arm cup to the cam follower which in turn requires a longer pushrod. Feel free to correct or add or comment....bosheff

Bosheff,
Funny, now that Im really thinking about it, it does seem like its coming from the front exhaust. SO, readjust and make sure its 3 1/2 turns and if the sound is still there adjust to 4 turns out and see how that works?

[Cotten]

Steve!

An A-grind with hydraulics can hammer dangerously at hot idle.

The ramps are not appropriate for keeping them filled, especially with a stock oil pump, inspite of Andrew's claims.

If indeed it is an evil 'A",
Your cheapest and easiest alternative would be to replace the hydraulics with solid conversion slugs. Otherwise, you would have to shop for a better cam that is compatible with stock hydraulics.

....Cotten

[jank1331]

Steve!

An A-grind with hydraulics can hammer dangerously at hot idle.

The ramps are not appropriate for keeping them filled, especially with a stock oil pump, inspite of Andrew's claims.

Your cheapest and easiest alternative would be to replace the hydraulics with solid conversion slugs. Otherwise, you would have to shop for a better cam that is compatible with stock hydraulics.

....Cotten

Well, that sucks! I have an S&S oil pump that always seems to have good pressure. Recomendations for solid conversion kits? Ive never replaced a cam, any machining involved or is it a simple swap out? Would I also have to replace the lifters too with a new cam?

[Cotten]

Steve!

We really do not know what cam you have yet.
Do you have a dial indicator that you can set up upon a lifter to measure the cam's lift?

S&S pumps push much more volume (pressure means little) than necessary, so we may not have a diagnosis yet.

Colony makes simple slug replacements for just the hydraulic unit itself; They are widely available.

If you cannot measure the lift, you are faced with disassembly, even if only for inspection.

....Cotten

[jank1331]

Cotten,
Well I will start with measuring the lifters. If it is an A grind, are they notorious for affecting just the front valves? Shouldnt the hydraulic lifters compensate for expansion and contraction of the motor/push rods during running?

[Cotten]

Steve!

The contour of a cam determines how fast and when a pushrod gets pushed.
If it is too rad, a hydraulic unit may not get the gulp of oil it needs to stay pumped up.

Most catalogs spec cams to be for hydraulics, or for solids only.
Andrews decided to cut the A so close to dangerous that it is dangerous. A hammering hydraulic can take out the right-side motorcase.

Shovels seem to have a better chance of getting away with an A than a Pan, don't know why.

Myself, I stay as far away from all Andrews products if I possibly can. They have already cost me greatly over the decades, even though I have made a little profit from replacing all of those that were trashed from poor heat-treat, or whatever made them so fragile. But not enough to cover the grief from the curves that came at me.

Please remember that you must accurately measure the total lift of the tappet as the motor is turned through its cycles.

Let us know what you measure,

....Cotten

[Wayne Mc]

HI Steve,
Measure your cam gear with cam gear gauge pins and the pinion gear on the pinion shaft.
This is a shovelhead and evo issue but also applies to panheads.

http://www.andrewsproducts.com/PDF_files/CamEV80.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

check # 4

Hope this helps

Wayne

[jank1331]

HI Steve,
Measure your cam gear with cam gear gauge pins and the pinion gear on the pinion shaft.
This is a shovelhead and evo issue but also applies to panheads.

http://www.andrewsproducts.com/PDF_files/CamEV80.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

check # 4

Hope this helps

Wayne

Wayne,
Thanks for the info. Funny what section 4 was saying I actually have a gear whine which I thought was the generator but according to what you posted, could be the cam gear backlash as well. I will be investigating this week. Thanks for the input.
Steve