vavle adjustments/lifters

[lennyg1954]

hello guys
doing top end on a 54 fle that hasent run in 10 years. had her running a few times up on lift,after adjusting valves numerous times and re working m74b carb she started to run better. pulled generator to send it off, the next time i tried to fire her up i had hardley any compression. i re adjusted the foot clutch control, still the same. tryed to re adjust valves and check hydraulic lifters, both front and rear intake pushrods after fully adjusting up and at there lowest points would not come out, cut rods and pulled hydraulic units, they test out ok per panhead service manual. whats going on. also what is opinon on converting to solid lifters,
LENNYG1954

[fourthgear]

You cut the push rods? That was not needed ,you just loosen the adj. all the way & they should fall out on the lowest part of the cam.( some may need a little prying )
I have never been a fan of early HD hyd. lifters, now if you got to a newer type like Jim's or Crane ect., they work as long as they get oil. Are you sure they are getting oil to them? Have you checked your tappet screen ? If you have one. Are the cam lobes OK ?
Solid lifters are great ,when adj. properly.

[Bosheff]

The camlobe was at its lowest point, the adjusters all the way down (released), and you had to cut the pushrods to git em out. That leads me to believe that the valve seats have been cut to many times and the valves are sunk into the heads. If ya got 1 long and 3 short pushrods, the long one goes in the front exhaust. The other three don't matter. If ya got one long, another a little shorter, and two shorter yet, the long in the front exhaust, next longest in the rear exhaust, and the remaining two go in the intakes. If yer valves are sunk in their seats, eventually yer gonna have to do somethin with the heads. If yer valves are adjusted to tight, ya won't have compression, in which case it'll be hard startin if it starts at all, and may spit back through the carb, and ya may even bend a pushrod. If they're to loose, it'll be hard startin if it starts at all, and will rattle while runnin. Did ya bleed the lifters before adjustin em? If ya bled the lifters before adjustment, did ya bring the pushrods to zero lash before the final adjustment? Are ya absolutely sure you were on the downside of the cam before you started the adjustment procedure?....bosheff

[partshunt]

Why would you bother to bleed the lifter when they are set extened against the stop? You set them three to four turn DOWN from free retracted position. (pushrod finger free). Valve spring pressure will then bleed them down if you wait a few minutes before barring the engine over to do the other cylinder. I have read others say to bleed the lifters first but I lnow of no purpose in that unless its some after market method...In the auto industry its known as three turn down from rattle. With engine running, back off till noisy, then slowly adjust/set untill the clacking just quits then add three turns down, engine running, it will bleed down if you dont crank er down too fast, but if you do, the engine will just misfires for a few seconds and recover.. too bad we cant use that method on a Panhead....Joe

[Bosheff]

You answered yer own question. You don't have to wait for them to bleed down, and you also eliminate the possability of bending a pushrod....bosheff

[partshunt]

Why would you bend a pushrod? the lifter is only gonna open the valve againt valve spring pressure, if the pushrod cant handle that, its gotta be already bent for some other reason, OR, your are adjusting the lifter in the wrong cam position (on the cam lobe) and the valve would have to contact the piston at TDC. You are only raising the valve the distance of three turns, (1/8 to 3/16) and that is all the valve will open for a minute or two till it bleeds or self adjust. Thats only 1/2 or less travel than the cam lobe delivers. Bleeding lifters is a waste of time and I have never seen instructions that ever called for that. Imagine a flat rate mechanic bleeding off 16 lifters on a Chevy V8. He wouldt last on that job...Just add the three turns slowly and they will begin bleeding/adjusting instantly.....Joe.

[Cotten]

Most bent pushrods that I have encountered occurred when someone attempted to adjust with filled lifters.
And a bent valve or two as well.

I learned the hard way in '75 to always wash them dry.
Waiting for wet lifters to bleed is a road-side emergency technique.

....Cotten

[Bosheff]

By bleedeing/cleaning an H-D hydraulic lifter before adjustment, you don't have to adjust against the load of the valve spring, which makes it a bunch easier seein yer doing the adjustment with a pair of 7/16" end wrenches, and most important in my opinion, yer flushin any dirt or grime from the lifter body which may impede/block oil flow.We ain't talkin bout a Chevy V-8....bosheff

[Cotten]

Just for clarity:

I use the word "bleed" to refer to the practice of waiting for an oil-filled lifter to release itself.

A washed-out lifter installs as per the Manual.

....Cotten

[partshunt]

Cotton:
That is what I was trying to explain in my post. All you need to first determine is that you are on the base circle. (lifters rocking on the oposite cylinder you are setting). If you turn slowly, you will usaually feel the lifter collapsing against the valve spring. Three turns quickly will only open the valve about 1/8 inch. The valve to piston clearance is over 3/8 to 1/2 inch before piston to valve contact can occur. The usuall valve/piston interference reading is .400" to .470" but each engine is a bit different. With only three turns on the pushrod, the nost travel or lift is only about 25% of that reading, lots of room there internally. Simple job, and one cant go wrong if the proper procedure is followed.This topic was more to avoid damage, however, if you want to pull the lifters to clean em, test them dry etc, thats another annimal if you think they are dirty, by all means, go for it. How about one piece lifters? Then add lifter block gaskets to your 1 hr flat rate tune up... ..Joe

[steinauge]

Well,you are right assuming you wait out the bleed down period correctly.we used to average one or two engines in the shop a week with 2 bent valves,2 cracked guides and a bent pushrod or two from people doing it that way.The problem is not piston to valve its valve to valve.Our 45 degree valve angle runs the valves pretty close to each other on overlap.It is indeed a simple procedure and it is amazing how many people can get it wrong.

[fourthgear]

I have never had a problem with re-adj. hyd. lifters after upper end job or any thing that leads to removing the push rods for some reason or another (unless the lifters needed to be cleaned for some reason ) Ya got to wait till the lifter bleeds down & can spin it before you go to the next one .
They used to say have a brew or two( or just wait, your choice ) to wait for it to bleed down ,but do not try to turn it over until the lifter you adj.'ed is turnable with two fingers. If it doesn't bleed down ,you have a problem with the lifter.

[partshunt]

I'm with ya fourthgear. I was going suggest going to the fridge and grabbing a beer, by then the pushrod should be free. But I thought maybe its the beer thats been causing bent pushrods and valves. lol...!!?

[Cotten]

I would like to remind everyone that a faulty lifter (OEM design) bleeds off quickly,
While it can take as much as fifteen minutes for a good lifter to bleed completely.

Installation by the Manual takes about a half an hour: Five minutes a pushrod plus ten of prep and clean-up.
Ignoring the Manual adds fifteen minutes a piece to be certain they have bled, and adds the liability of bending something as well.

The bending doesn't happen while your wrenches are on it (although it probably could...), Its when you turn the motor through.

....Cotten

[59Panman]

What aftermarket hydraulic lifters are the good ones to purchase?