Hyraulic conversion

[flamingoesg]

Hi All,
Please forgive me if this info is already on the forum. I searched and couldn't find what I need. My question is: Where and how do I drill passageways in the right side case of a '48 Pan to provide oil for the later Hydraulic units (like on a '59 Pan)? I can see where the holes must start under the tappet blocks, but at what angle? I already have all the parts and just need some info. The hydraulic pushrods that were stock are useless.
Thanks,
Charlie

[FlatHeadSix]

Flamingo

Its much easier (and safer) to replace the old oil-can push rods with a set of solid rods. Drilling the cases is destructive and risky in my opinion.

The solid push rods are available from many sources at a very reasonable price. The only cautions are making sure that your tappets are in good shape and that you adjust them correctly. There are several threads on the forum devoted to adjusting the solid push rod conversion, the key word is TIGHT. Most of the solid rods are aluminum shafts with steel end inserts, you need to keep a little closer eye on the adjustment until they settle in. If adjusted properly they run just as quiet as the originals, maybe even better. If allowed to run loose they can beat up the tappets and rockers, not good!

just something to consider before you start drilling.

mike

[Cotten]

Charlie!

I once drilled a one-year-only '48 casting, and it was certainly not worth the grief, nor the weakening of the cylinder deck.

Beware also, that you will not be able to use your original aluminum 'keyway' tappet blocks.

When you shop for solid conversion kits, seek out steel pushrods rather than aluminum, as their expansion rate allows for a more forgiving range of adjustment.

....Cotten

[VT]

Some reading and pondering material from Kirk Perry & Mark "Stett" Stettler:


My blocks were painted then honed 0.002" o.s. (V-Twin or J&P don't carry a 0.002" o.s. JIMS tappet. You need to get them through a dealer).
~ Parts and tappet guides honed to size - at http://stettsironhorseranch.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ~
You might want to paint yours last. My paint survived, but typical Brake Kleen® will dissolve H-D's high-temp paint.

solidcombomv7.jpg

This the best set up available for solid lifters. All American, from the tappet roller to the rocker end of the all-steel push rods.

1. S&S 93-9059 Solid steel push rods (Big end matches the rocker arms.)
2. The JIMS adjustable tappets are listed and boxed as Big Axle. Maybe they'll have Big Axle, maybe not. When it comes to solid push rod tappets, you take whatever JIMS has in stock and still be ahead mechanically 25k miles down the road.


Here's the literature that ships with JIM tappets. © JIMS® - Camarillo, Calif.
http://www.jimsusa.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
Just more of the same, from the most visited Panhead site world-wide. Every day a new adventure here at http://hydra-glide.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Donations are appreciated. Roll on.

[Cotten]

Some note's on VT's post:

That is a late block in the machinist's hands, as the oil holes display.
Early blocks can be honed for oversize tappets (fine ones are available from Eastern MCY Parts), but not with that mandrel, as the single stone will catch in the 'keyway' oil groove.

Early blocks were aluminum, so paint is not an issue.

Note also that early tappets are being installed into late blocks.
Late tappets (as shown on the boxes) with solid inserts would allow for the use of hydraulics (in a drilled case machine) later down the road, if desired.

....Cotten
PS: I have encountered many, many failed tappet rollers, but never, ever a failed "axle" (properly a 'rivet'). Methinks "Big Axles" are a marketing gimmick to solve problem that doesn't exist in classic H-D motorcycles.

[VT]

Big Axles

Big axle tappets have no race. The axle is the race, which is a benefit with solid lifter push rod pounding. This early tappet (shown) is not Big Axle. The material for the Big Axle was getting hard to source for JIMS at the time I bought these. The hydraulic body pictured on the box would use a "conversion" tappet cup like Colony's if used. Note: I used the Colony conversion kit. Comes with a tappet cup spring. The spring if used, allows the push rod to rotate and can play havoc when trying to adjust the push rod lash to a "close tolerance". We ditched the springs and glued my cups in with Loctite (red). Probably worked for a 100 miles, then what? Released and the cup was allowed to spin at will, is what.
The early tappets (shown) eliminate the revolving free-play of the Colony-type cups. So, what you see here is an assembly that uses less parts and eliminates free-play you might otherwise collect with the alternative "conversion set up". I would have liked to have had the Big Axle tappets, but this is the definitive solution to returning to solid lifters with no intention of ever returning to the temperamental hydraulics.
If you want to read some daunting instructions, try poring through JIMS hydraulic install sheet
Then, there's that goofy "tin shield on a stick" gauge to regulate-adjust each hydraulic tappet, but basically dirty oil will foul those units. If even one of them clogs, you've got problems.
My advise to everyone is to make a choice. Go solid or go hydraulic, but don't go solid with plans to go back to hydraulic some day.
In retrospect, over the years of solid lifter use, I trust my own fingertip lash control over "modern engineering" hydraulic lifters any day. In fact, when I check my push rod lash at every 3,000 mile oil change, rarely do I need to re-adjust any of them. Of all four tappets, the rear intake was usually the only push rod lash that would occasionally need slight (but important) adjustment.
The choice is yours. Download a hydraulic instruction sheet from JIMS and read it first before you invest.
Yikes:

jimshydcm1.jpg

© JIMS, Camarillo, Calif. (cam-a-reel-yo)
That's a lot of conditions that have to be met. We're assuming that anyone running hydraulic lifters would also have an oil filter installed.
Now scroll back up and look at the JIMS & S&S solid combo. Crossroads again
Hey you know what? Since Cotten pointed it out.....I wouldn't want a Big Axle hollow-body tappet anyway and have to use a Colony adapter cup. If JIMS doesn't make a Big Axle solid body like the small axle body sitting on the box above.....forgetabout it. I'm sticking with what i have. It still has JIMS needle bearings.

[Cotten]

The "Big Axle" now makes even less sense to me.
It really sounds like a ploy for 'proprietary exclusion", if you know what I mean: Once you bought the product, you must go back to S&S for roller replacements. (Whoops, I meant JIMS, as VT points out!)

Tossing the silly springs that are included with "solids kits", and potting-in the 'slugs' has been dogma for decades. Glad to hear you did that!

....Cotten

[VT]

S&S for roller replacements

You meant JIMS, but no can do. The axles are too hard to peen. Once the JIMS roller/axles are done, they go in the trash. But I think they provide long service - big or small axle.
I like the needle bearing solid JIMS lifters. Stett and I could have chosen any assembly from any manufacturer in the world. He chose this set-up as the most hardened-American available. It incorporates all the wild hop-up you could mix in a valve train.
Imagine the audacity of putting your motors very life at the hands of two manufacturers that are 3,000 miles apart but sharing one focus. Your using one outfits tappets and cup screws on the west coast, and another outfits push rods from the eastern mid-west.... and on sheer blind faith, your counting on trans-national ball ends matching cups from an unknown rocker arm manufacturer - not a problem.

[beets]

I was told by an "old guy" that they used to braze the hyd mechanism on the push rod. This made a solid lifter.

He said that was done because of the problems with the system.

[fourthgear]

Some one botched the hyd. passage conversion on my 48 motor ( before I bought it )and I had to have it repaired correctly, still capable of hyd. but went to Jim's big axle one piece solids and with over 15K ,not a problem and I have only had to readjust them once , go figure.

[reo49]

Cotten,

Would you elaborate on why the aluminum tappet blocks can't be used once the case is drilled for hydraulic tappets?

I have a 1950 right case that was drilled. Can it be fixed to where I could use the aluminum blocks? Maybe welding the holes shut or plugging with appropriately sized aluminum dowel?

[Cotten]

Reo49!

Sorry I missed your question for a few days....

Early aluminum tappet blocks relied upon a keyway groove lengthwise in the tappet bores for basic lubrication supplied primarily from above. They can be used even in later cases for solid assemblies, but not to accept the later hydraulic units.

Later cast steel blocks were drilled with both feed galleries fed from the case galleries, as well as smaller drain holes for the oil that would puddle upon the tappets from above. They will keep the later hydraulics supplied with oil, instead of just letting the surplus from above drain past them.

It has always been my choice to plug any galleries that require plugging by tapping the holes for an appropriate set-screw.

...Cotten

[reo49]

Cotten,
Thanks for the info! Using a set screw is a much better way than welding or plugging with dowel or rod.

[pzokes]

Vern Ott used to sell a special order modified set of his Velvatouch hyd lifters and lifter blocks for early Pan motors. The blocks were drilled to take an external oil line. They were expensive. Last I knew, Vern was retired, but you could still order stuff from him.