Hydraulic lifters seem to collapse

[pan65]

Hi, I have a problem with my hydraulic lifters on my 65 pan, they are all new and so is the rest of the engine. totally overhauled , the problem started the second trip i made with it. It seems like the lifters collapse. I have taken them out and bled them out and blowed them with compressed air. Remounted them with the same result. it started but then it started to run bad again. and it stopped. after that I have not been able to start it. Some puffs from the caburator nothing else and the plugs are dry. Seems like it doesn't enter any fuel. what can be the cause for this? are lifters broken even though they are new? Could someone help me with this ???
thanks in advance Mats

[PanPal]

Have you checked your tappet screen? Who did you get the lifters from? It is hard to troubleshoot a new part that was bad from the start. There are some good instructions in the repaier manual for testing lifters. Also there are good instructions on setting the pushrods here on other threads. Did you adjust them at half travel of the hydraulic unit after zero backlash? No play then 3-1/2 turns tighter.

I'm still fighting the front exhaust lifter dropping out after just over an hour of riding. I think I need to check for wear in my tappet blocks next.

[pan65]

thanks for your reply, The guy who put the engine together must have forgot the tappet screen. there was none when i looked. So I will have to fix one. after what I understand this is the filter for the lifters?

The tappets are from Jims and the hydrulics are from chrome specialties. I have a repairmanual from clymer.

As far as I can see I have mounted them correctly after my disassembly. And yes I did adjust them 3,5 turns after zero backlash. I have been thinking about the oil. I am using harleys 20-50 oil is it that it is to thin maybe? It's quite hot here in Sweden right now.

[PanPal]

I can tell you my 59 got better running straight 60W. The tap stays away about another 1/2 hour. I was running 20-50.

I'm not sure if your tappet screen is the same as in my 59, but I installed a -70 screen rather than the original setup. It seems the original design will not allow as much oil to flow to the hydraulics.

Food for thought here. I was told there are evo lifters available now that are designed more like a small block Chevy lifter. He said they slip right in your original set up. I just wasn't told where they could be purchased. I'm going to try a few more things, then stick a solid set up in the front exhaust if I can't get good results.

[mbskeam]

hello,
how is your oil flow? is your oil pump ok? is it pumping oil? (sheard key?) correct oil pump gasket?
mbskeam

[pan65]

hi again , maybe I should change to a thicker oil? The oilpump is later model aluminiumpump 1968 up. it was also rebuilt. And I think it's pumping I had a oil leak from the front exhaust pushrod pipe. And when I opened up the screw where the tappet screen should have been there was oil coming out. And I have a oilpressure gauge fitted on the pump. But it doesn't show more than 20- 25 psi. Maybe that's to low? The guy who did the rebuild of the engine put in another gearing to make it flow 5% more. regarding converting to solids I'm not into that yet. I have a hydraulic Crane fireball 300 installed and I don't know if that will work with solids. There must be a way to make it work with hydraulics. Is there any way to test the hydraulics to see if they are ok?

[mbskeam]

hello. I was told that if after the lifter has been run(pumped up) that if right after doing the pushrod adj. if it spins free in less than a couple of min. then the lifter might be bad, lifters that are from china might be the problem.

panpal .....
the chev lifter is a crane unit and they go into....gasp
a TWIN CAM, I did some looking into this for mine,
and for all that dont know , it should make you feel good to know that a pan with solids has about the same noise level as some TC, go figure.even the new bikes have H.D. issues


I forgot,
S&S I think makes a lifter kit for shovels, so it might fit a pan.......bet it aint cheep thou.
mbskeam

[chucktx]

i had the same problem with my 65. i also had a crane hyd cam in it. i got a "kit" that converted the hyd to solid. it used the same lifter roller, but you remove the guts and install the "solids" into the cavity. then adjust as solids.......havent had a bit of a problem since.
chucktx

[CknDnr]

were solids in it before the change? Did you check that the oil passages weren't sealed off with a small set screw in the lifter blocks?

[PanPal]

I spend a about an hour talking with a guy that has worked on this old iron for a long time. He asked if I have the restrictor in the end of my pinion shaft on my S&S flywheels. Something about it helping even out the flow to your top end without robbing from the supply to the tappets. His suggestion was to put on an S&S oil pump and install the JIMS hydraulic set up. The motor tells me when it needs a rest now, my fear is that with a solid it will keep doing damage without complaining.

Cotten
you have talked about how serviceable the original oil pump is. What is done to restore an original oil pump. Also some one mentioned a seal between the scavenge section and the pressure side. does this rob from my pressure if in fact the hole has been scared now from the key-ways on the shaft? What must be done to insure my pump is giving all it can put out? If the oil pump cover starts to show some marks from the gears, will this lower the pressure when oil is hot.

Mbskeam,

I know I've got good flow cold, not sure about when the tapping starts. I did check on the sheared key scenario and don't think this is the case with mine. I have the translucent plastic gaskets.

[pan65]

Hi again, I changed the lifters to Jims powerglide hydraulic lifters and changed to Millers straight 50 oil. And now it's working. Only problem left to solve is the generator. I rebuilt it with new parts inside everything and added a regulator from cycle electrics that go on the end of the generator. But it's not working. So with the mallory electronic ignition that I installed I now only have a driving range of 120 kilometers than the battery is empty. Think I am going crazy. And it's vacation time here in Sweden so all the electrical guys are on holiday.

[rigidpanman]

i installed a alum shovel pump on my bike in the late 80`s.i have never been able to get hydraulics to act right,so i run solids and except for the noise i have not had any problems.

[panhead]

i installed a alum shovel pump on my bike in the late 80`s.i have never been able to get hydraulics to act right

Did you change the oil channels?

[Cotten]

PP!
Most original pumps need very little attention for the life of several overhauls. The seal installation is a cure for a badly damaged pump.

Meanwhile,
This discussion is impossible to follow because of the myriad of re-designed over-engineered aftermarket parts involved. I'd chuck them all, and start over with stock design. It works.

Oil grade shouldn't have a thing to do with it.

And shitcan the Clymer manual, .. and the mechanic who assembled the motor of course.

(By the way, the real manual says 4 turns down from zero lash.)

[kell]

Pan 65
Check the brushes in the generator, make sure they can move freely and the springs push them against the commutator. Sometimes a brush will get stuck so it won't touch the armature -- ZERO output.
Disconnect the regulator and check the generator windings with an ohmmeter. Field should measure between 5.5 and 6 ohms. To measure Field you put the ohmmeter leads on the A and F terminals.

The Armature resistance I don't remember exactly, but it's much less than the field -- like a couple of ohms. Without taking the generator apart, you can measure the armature resistance by touching the meter leads to the A terminal and ground. If the brushes are in contact with the commutator and the armature windings are ok it should give a reading in the low single digit ohms, like I said. If you don't get a reading you have to open up the generator, see whether it's a stuck brush or a burnt armature, but you said it's new so a stuck brush is more likely.