Base gasket alert

[mbskeam]

Hello, if any body is thinking about using the james steel cyl base gaskets.then read this first. they LEAK!!! the rear feed hole is off by about 1/16 to the out side, and that lets the elastomer beading that is imprinted on the gasket to stick out side of the case. as the case is only .100 thick to the edge of the feed hole. The elastomer gasket edge to the hole is aproxx. .125 .025 dont seem that much on a gasket , but when it pisses oil all over the place, it aint fun. 8 hrs wasted redoing the heads till 2:00 am last night.<the>paper gaskets lined up fine. took pics to send too there tech department. and to let you all know about this problem. part # is JGI-16776-48-X

EVIL STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MBSKEAM

[Cotten]

First thing today, I pulled a set off the shelf and started to compare them to cylinders out of the basement.
I found no problem at all with any of them.
Next I pulled one of my '49 cases out of the cabinet and laid the gaskets upon them.

PERFECT

I suggest you guys investigate your problems a little closer before you start blameing the hardware, and blasting a credible manufacturer who is not on this forum to defend themselves.

(C'mon Billy, the -63's don't even have the oil feed hole!)

[mbskeam]

hello,
all I know is what I found and saw, my calipers dont lie. when a paper gasket is put over them , james by the way, it is off from the steel one. these might have been a old set, first run stuff.
James hopefully has fixed this problem.All I am saying is that it would be wise to check these out carefully first. As my cases and cyl. are stock units. The problem is real as I had oil all over the side of the engine . As of today with 9 miles on new motor I have no base gasket leaks with paper gaskets. Also I said that the red rubber was way out to the edge. there by sticking out from the comprestion points of case and cyl. By the way I do like james as they make good products that is why I went with these in the first place.as my head gaskets are james.
just a little crankey about this as I put 47.5 hrs over 4 days getting my bike up and running. and this is after working 10 hr days at real job. thanks for reading this.
MBSKEAM

[sleeper]

Cotten, As usual, You make good sense.
You know I have on ocassion, jumped the gun!!
So until I see the motor & take it apart & examine the situation, I am pulling my post. I said earlier, I only use James Gaskets. & I didn't put these metal base gaskets in.
Cotten, I am also aware 63-65 have no feed holes.
As they are fed externally. & drained thru the cylinder bores. However, I know the rear base leak is very real.
And that the gasket is protruding out a bit, beyond the
flange.
I have to explore why!! :-X

[48PANMAN]

When I put together my motor over the winter, I noticed the oil feed and drain holes in the gasket didn't match up exactly with these same James base gaskets.
I enlarged the holes slightly to match the holes in the motor and assembled it. The gaskets fit perfectly to the cylinders, no sticking out past the cylinders. When I started it up this spring, it started leaking from each side. I've tightend down the cylinder base nuts three times after each warmup and now it is only minor seepage. My question is ,should I keep doing this, will it stop eventually? Or do I have to pull the top end and start over with different gaskets?

Bruce

[Guest]

If you keep tightening the base nuts, you run the risk of pulling the studs out of the aluminum cases

[Cotten]

48P!

These are questions you may find aggravating or even insulting, but they must be asked. Your patience is appreciated.
Did you use a sealer?
Did you use a torquewrench? With an adapter/extension? How many ft/lbs?

Are your cylinders Factory, or aftermarket? If A-M, what brand?

...Cotten
PS: I too have an occasional leakage problem with early Pans, but nearly always at the seam between the cases at the rear cylinder where hydraulic pressure is highest, not near the feeds or drains. Irregularities on the case deck (or cylinder base) are a bitch! Too many were savaged with a screwdriver or chisel long before many of us were born.

[mbskeam]

hello, see I'm not nuts . because I had and found the same problem . and all my parts are HD parts with very nice decks & cly faces.these gaskets do not need sealer as they have the seal bead on both sides built in. and tourqed to 45ft lbs.it leaked because the hole is off to the out side and the bead is even farther out.and that caused my LEAK
have a nice day
mbskeam

[48PANMAN]

Hi Cotton...
I appreciate your questions, no problem here. First of all like Mbskeam said these gaskets have the beads of sealer on both sides so I didn't add any other sealer. My engine cases, cylinders etc. are all original HD. I am ashamed to admit I didn't use a torque wrench as mine won't fit in that area. Any ideas where I can get one that fits?
Bruce

[sleeper]

48Pan, It works... Welcome aboard!!

Anyway, my situation of the 65 S&S Pan with the James metal base gaskets is as follows, The owner had gotten James 48-63 Bagged & Bagged again by V-Twin = saying for "48-65 Pan" He didn't think anything of it. But now I do..& it did protrude out one side a bit. & did have a bad rear cyl. base leak. Rear only!!
I put in correct -year paper base gaskets w/ No Sealer & checked all surfaces for flat & true. Prepped with alcohol, not me, but the surfaces..Torqued in increments to 45 ft. lbs. W/torque wrench & extension & now has over 100+ miles on & is dry as a bone!!!

So at least in my situation this problem can at least be partially attributed to V-Twin mis-labeling James package. The other part is the owner, who should have known better..But if he did, he wouldn't need me!!

[Panzer]

Hi guys,

I noticed this tread a while back, and hoped that I would never need this informtion... And guess what? After overcoming the problems I've had with the carburator and clutch, I noticed today that I have some minor leak at the base of the cylinders!
The engine has always been dry, but obviously that is not the case anymore Sad. There is no sign of a leak when the engine is cold/just started, but when temperatur rises, there is some minor leakage. I'm currently running a synthetic 20-50 oil.

Any ideas on the subject? The leak is located on the left side of the engine (both on the front and rear cyl).
If I need to thigten the nuts, are there any tricks on how to reach the nut that is hiding behind the distrubitor?

(since I'm still without a service manual, I would be happy if someone could tell me what the torque should be...).

All replies are much appreciated! (as always)

[panhead]

Snap-on has a wrench that can reach all nuts. Expensive but very useful.

[Cotten]

Mr. P!

With all due respect,...I'll have to see it to believe it, particularly from Snap-on. (Modern mega-toolpushers rarely ever pay any attention to obsolete motorcycles!)

Can you post a pic of the wrench for the basenut behind the circuitbreaker (presumable an extention for a torquewrench)?

[panhead]

I will.

[Panzer]

I'm looking forward to see picture of that particular tool. If it solves the problem with the nut behind the circuitbreaker, I would be truly happy!
Any info on what torque I should use on the base nuts?
Any comments to my choice of oil?
And if the snap-on tool does'nt live up to its expectations, where may I get a extention for the torquewrench?