Timer control problems

[dchfle54]

I have owned and repaired my 1954 FLE Panhead for going on 32 years now, and there has been one thing in all those years that I haven't been able to get it to see things my way. That is the control wire adjustment for the timer. It advances fine, my problem is getting it to return to the retard position fully without my helping it along. I have done it many times in the past, however it was purly accidental. I am to the point of installing a return spring, I have read all of the manuals and still frustrated. Any little tricks that someone knows to help me end the retard blues?

dchfle54

[Bigincher]

When someone owns a motorcycle for 32 years, I wouldn't question whether he knows the difference between 'advance' and 'retard', but after reading your post several times to make sure I'm reading it right, I'm not so sure...
Didn't you mean to say that the timer needs help returning to the full advance position, after having been retarded for starting?
If so, there are no tricks. Just be sure the handlebar spiral is cleaned and functions smoothly, and there are no kinks in the control cable. Verify that the timer moves smoothly through its full range of motion with the control wire disconnected, and while disconnected check for free movement of the inner wire within the outer coil.
If all checks out, there is one secret trick to help the inner wire move smoothly with no tight spots or hang ups; replace it with a wire with a slightly smaller guage. Where do you that?! you may ask.
From you friendly local piano tuner. They will often have individual liane wires in their toolbox, and a wire gage to measure their thickness.
Piano wire that's slightly smaller gage than stock wire- that's the Secret Trick of the Day. (But check everything else first. And confirm the difference between Advance and Retard.)

[Bigincher]

When you adjust the position of the inner wire, start by loosening the set screw. Then manually position the timer to fully advanced. Now twist the hand grip to fully advanced, then back it off approximately 1/16 of a turn. Then tighten the set screw. This will assure that the timer bottoms out before the handlebar spiral does.

[Excalibur]

I got a nice improvement in my timer operation by greasing the housing where it rotates. Firstly I washed it up to get any grit out then lightly greased the mating surfaces. Earlier I had remade the cable from new nylon lined cabling I bought from a mower shop. I assembled the cable dry, only greasing the spiral twistgrip mechanism. I knew the cable was smooth and working well but it was still slightly resisting retard movement. The greasing of the housing made all the difference. Hope this helps.

[Lowbikemike]

You might need to adjust the tightness on the c clip that holds the timer head on, along with lube as Excalibur states.

A return spring will help the timer "return" FROM retard but should not be needed.

[dchfle54]

When someone owns a motorcycle for 32 years, I wouldn't question whether he knows the difference between 'advance' and 'retard', but after reading your post several times to make sure I'm reading it right, I'm not so sure...
Didn't you mean to say that the timer needs help returning to the full advance position, after having been retarded for starting?
If so, there are no tricks. Just be sure the handlebar spiral is cleaned and functions smoothly, and there are no kinks in the control cable. Verify that the timer moves smoothly through its full range of motion with the control wire disconnected, and while disconnected check for free movement of the inner wire within the outer coil.
If all checks out, there is one secret trick to help the inner wire move smoothly with no tight spots or hang ups; replace it with a wire with a slightly smaller guage. Where do you that?! you may ask.
From you friendly local piano tuner. They will often have individual liane wires in their toolbox, and a wire gage to measure their thickness.
Piano wire that's slightly smaller gage than stock wire- that's the Secret Trick of the Day. (But check everything else first. And confirm the difference between Advance and Retard.)

Hello Bigincher, As I said in my posting, when I roll the control grip to the advanced position(the timer base responds to the counterclockwise direction), this functions correctly, it is when I roll it back to the retard osition(timer base goes in the clockwise direction) is where it hangs up. I can manually turn the base with the cable and my right hand to get at the retard position. It does get back to the retard position only after many times adjusting it, to the point I am not sure what I did. I have a nbew cableinner and outer, it is lubricated and the timer base isn't binding.

dchfle54

[Bigincher]

The other guys have offered good advice from their experience, too.

Just wanted to add that reaching full-retard is usually not critical. Most motors like to start with the timer retarded about 2/3 of the way to full retard. As long as it comes back smoothly to the stop at full advance, you're good.

Sorry if there's been any confusion on my part.

[Little Stan]

My spark advance control on my multi-years pan is on the worn out side, it retards just enough to get it started. It used to be too stiff to work so I rebent the spring clip on the bottom and put some grease on it.

When I set mine up I didn't have any decent cables for the throttle and the spark so I went to the hardware and got two lawnmower control cables. Salvaged the original collars and silver soldered them to the cable ends. Some black shrink fit over the portion that shows and it worked out well. I lubed up the cable internals with never seize.

-'lil stan

[white1j0]

I had the exact same problem with my '47 Knuckle that I'm trying to put together, just last week, I have a set of aftermarket Hollywood handlebars with all the internals, after I removed the inner wire I realized it was getting kinked up, which was almost like a piece of cheap bailing wire, I bought a piece of cable from the John Deere dealer, which is much more rigid and it works perfect

[Mark44]

One thing to check is something pressing on the spark control cable. When I first got my Pan, I could advance the timer easily enough, by I had to reach down and turn the timer to get to to the fully retard position. It turns out the cable was being pinched between the frame and engine guard on one side. After pulling the cable out of where it was being pinched, I'm now able to control the timer in both directions.

[bangkokbob]

Put anti or never seize under the timer and the retaining ring that holds the timer in place.
Make sure the ring is in correct place and the cap wire clips locate in the recesses of the ring (under the timer).
This is a bit tricky to see as there's not much room and hard to see. May require a few attempts.
Once all lubed and correctly assembled should be easy to rotate.
Regards, B.B.

[Buddhahoodvatoloco]

Excellent and viable solutions tour dilemma. There have been times when the cable itself is bound up on the frame, which was already proffered, check the path of the cable.
I have also encountered some resistance on the clip on the Mechanical relay, that guides/hold the cable before it enters the arm. Some bending down, or up can help the path.. But all in all, its basically a path of least resistance you seek.. Beuna suerte..

[hogboy52]

Just something from an original '49 Owners Manual, page 9. "When starting the engine...Turn the spark control grip inward as far as it will go to fully advance the spark. Some engines start best with spark slightly retarded."

A bit of factory humor? Not quite brave enough to try that method, but 3/4 seems about right. Full retard used to check that idle mix/adjustment is correct as I remember. Know no other use.