stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
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stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
Hi everyone, im new to the forum. I picked up a panhead chopper a while back and finaly about have it going. The problem is that i cant start it. I had it running a couple of times, but it was extremly hard to get started, and then it didnt want to stay running for long. What i have is a panhead with a S&S stroker crank in it. The bike was built in 83, but the parts may be even older than that. It also has a morris magneto on it. I go through the process on Morris's instruction sheet and it doesnt seem to be working right. I feel that my timing is still off. The instructions say to get the front cylinder coming up on compression stroke and look in the timing hole for the front cyl advance mark. Everything that i have read about S&S cranks says that they have 3 marks, tdc for front, rear, and the full advance mark? My crank only had a big deep slash and that is it. Im wondering if this mark is still the correct advanced timing mark to time to, or is it something else? Someone that is an expert with these magneto's please help!!
Like i said i did get it started a few times, but it took a ton of kicking. Also my bike has an S&S two throat Carb. Some people tell me they are cool, most tell me to get rid of it, but im going to try it until i cant deal with it any more. I really like the look of it, and someone did a bunch of metal engraving on the aircleaner for it. Ill try and upload a couple of pics of the bike.
Like i said i did get it started a few times, but it took a ton of kicking. Also my bike has an S&S two throat Carb. Some people tell me they are cool, most tell me to get rid of it, but im going to try it until i cant deal with it any more. I really like the look of it, and someone did a bunch of metal engraving on the aircleaner for it. Ill try and upload a couple of pics of the bike.
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
G'day Brandomc
Well I'd check your manifold isnt leaking first up, then second, from a long list, Get your maggie re-excited.
there is plenty of info here on testing your manifold for leaks. If the maggie has been sitting around it would be a good idea to get it
re-excited and this will help the spark.
Now S&S timing marks can sometimes be higher than you expect. Get it on compression Stroke as the
front inlet push rod is coming down start looking for your timing mark, it isnt far off. Get down lower an look up into the hole. Might need someone to help you
do this I use a mirror on the running board while I push it over by hand on the kicker.
Well thats a start for you!
Pete
Well I'd check your manifold isnt leaking first up, then second, from a long list, Get your maggie re-excited.
there is plenty of info here on testing your manifold for leaks. If the maggie has been sitting around it would be a good idea to get it
re-excited and this will help the spark.
Now S&S timing marks can sometimes be higher than you expect. Get it on compression Stroke as the
front inlet push rod is coming down start looking for your timing mark, it isnt far off. Get down lower an look up into the hole. Might need someone to help you
do this I use a mirror on the running board while I push it over by hand on the kicker.
Well thats a start for you!
Pete
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
So everything on this bike is new but from 1983. It was a show bike that had 150 miles on it and then it was pushed into a storage container until i got to it. So will a magneto lose its magnetism by just setting? How can i test the strength of the spark? Who can re-excite my magneto if this is an issue? I live in southern California.
Also, i was lying on the ground when i was turning my engine over by hand and i didnt see any other timing marks, but i will look again tomorrow and make sure. What would the other timing marks look like. I have STD cases, could that change where the timing mark shows up in the window? Thanks
Also, i was lying on the ground when i was turning my engine over by hand and i didnt see any other timing marks, but i will look again tomorrow and make sure. What would the other timing marks look like. I have STD cases, could that change where the timing mark shows up in the window? Thanks
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
G'day Brandomc,
Yes they lose it just sitting around, but check your spark by taking out a plug and earth it on something (maggie lead still attached) and kick your bike over
while looking at the plug electrode, you should see a healthy blueish spark. Re-exciting it I couldn't help there but anyone that reconditions old bike motors
its a simple procedure. A lot of older bikes cars an tractors had Magnetos, Joe Hunt comes to mind. I bought some off him in the 70s. I can't remember what state he is in.
The timing mark should be a straight line mechined into the outer edge of the fly wheel about a 1/16"wide x 1/32 deep, this should appear verticly in the timming hole.
But might, might be a little higher in the hole. Should be no diff for STD cases.
There is another way if you can do it. Get the piston on Compression stroke find TDC (top dead center) through the plug hole on the fron t cylinder and go backward 32 degrees (thats clockwise looking from the left side of the bike) the timing mark should be in the hole. You need a degree wheel attached to the sprocket shaft to do it this way.0 Degrees =TDC. Dont time your bike going backwards, but its another way so you can see the timing mark. Always time your bike going in the forward rotation. Timing marks can just fly past and you miss em, go slow using a flash light if needed.
Pete
Yes they lose it just sitting around, but check your spark by taking out a plug and earth it on something (maggie lead still attached) and kick your bike over
while looking at the plug electrode, you should see a healthy blueish spark. Re-exciting it I couldn't help there but anyone that reconditions old bike motors
its a simple procedure. A lot of older bikes cars an tractors had Magnetos, Joe Hunt comes to mind. I bought some off him in the 70s. I can't remember what state he is in.
The timing mark should be a straight line mechined into the outer edge of the fly wheel about a 1/16"wide x 1/32 deep, this should appear verticly in the timming hole.
But might, might be a little higher in the hole. Should be no diff for STD cases.
There is another way if you can do it. Get the piston on Compression stroke find TDC (top dead center) through the plug hole on the fron t cylinder and go backward 32 degrees (thats clockwise looking from the left side of the bike) the timing mark should be in the hole. You need a degree wheel attached to the sprocket shaft to do it this way.0 Degrees =TDC. Dont time your bike going backwards, but its another way so you can see the timing mark. Always time your bike going in the forward rotation. Timing marks can just fly past and you miss em, go slow using a flash light if needed.
Pete
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
NICE MACHINE!!!---I can tell you this much,If everything is not right that motor will not be forgiving,S&S Stroker Motor,lighter wheels in the bottom-end,throw in a kicker /With a MAG!=hard start!,I would go thru-it starting with manifoldLEAK test,IF it sat that long no doubt the o-rings are not up to par!-Check Valvelash adj. & put new points in the mag.&set at .015 gap! The timing will be critical for that MAG.!-Maybe a look in the tanks & see any floaters? Take carb. apart & clean EVERYTHING!-(twice on that one). GOOD LUCK! Should be a real screamer when you straighten her out! ---RICHIE
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
Mags are simple, little twirly thing that makes current. Works exactly the way a conventional system works all in one nice little package.
Along with going thru everything! Check the compression too.
As soon as you get it lit make sure you have oil returning to the tank.
Autolite 4275 plugs at .018-.020
The wires need to be solid core, copper or steel.
Those caps suck the heat will warp it. Get a bakelite cap.
Without doubt send it to Joe Hunt for a recharge, and bearings they’re cheap!
http://www.huntmagnetos.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The ground post needs a means to ground the mag to shutdown the mill.
Retard the mag (looking down at it, clockwise) just enough so it’s not trying to buck you off.
I’d get the bike dialed in with a simple carb….
Along with going thru everything! Check the compression too.
As soon as you get it lit make sure you have oil returning to the tank.
Autolite 4275 plugs at .018-.020
The wires need to be solid core, copper or steel.
Those caps suck the heat will warp it. Get a bakelite cap.
Without doubt send it to Joe Hunt for a recharge, and bearings they’re cheap!
http://www.huntmagnetos.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The ground post needs a means to ground the mag to shutdown the mill.
Retard the mag (looking down at it, clockwise) just enough so it’s not trying to buck you off.
I’d get the bike dialed in with a simple carb….
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
The 2-throat may not be the absolute worst choice for a stroker, but it's on the list.
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
But it should still run, doncha think, Kitabel?kitabel wrote:The 2-throat may not be the absolute worst choice for a stroker, but it's on the list.
BrandoMC!
The most common problem with mags is merely light oxidation on the contacts, particularly the coil "grounds". Disassembly and cleaning alone often does wonders.
Please tell us how your manifold bubbletest goes,
as they often do not store well either.
...Cotten
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
i have a mild stroke 71 shovel with a morris mag and i can say from experience it took a lot to get it to start easily. basically the old timer i look to told me as he was pointing at the carb and the mag that "this, and this, dont work well together naturally. you have to make them" i thought i was off on my timing initially. i got one of morris buzz boxes and that made things easier but i couldve got by without it. at some point i just started gradually advancing the mag until it started to kick back on me and then came back a hair. i spent a good amount of time on the phone with morris and that helped me confirm my issue was not the mag but my carb. with that carb you got i would start looking that way, once youre sure you have the basics in place that a lot of people mentioned here. intake leak test, pushrod adjustment, spark test, points gap, etc. basically what im saying is, if everything is doing what its supposed to but it still wont start (which happened to me) just stick it out and it will get easier as you go. you need to find the sweet spot and work out the dance to start it. if the bike has only 150 miles on it its not been broken in, which is a big thing in itself.
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
Thanks for all the replys everyone. I want to mention that i completly disasembled this bike and rebuilt and checked everything. I disasembled the top end of the engine because the intake flanges had cracked. I had them rewelded and then ported them back out. I put new intake O-rings on, rebuilt the carb, set all the lifter clearances. I do need to confirm that the intake isnt leaking. I feel that the magneto is my initial problem. I just dont know if that big slash on the crank is the right one to time the mag to for full advance. When i disasembled the bike it was amazing because everything appears to be brand new. Yes the engine still needs to go through its brake in period, so it may be a little tight trying to kick it over right now. As far as my cap goes, i am woried about it because it almost touches the exhaust when it is where i think it is supposed to be for full advance. Does that sound right?? It seems to close to me.
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
It's going to run pretty close, not much room there as you know because it also hits the push rod tube on retard. those caps have to be perfect which they are not. 1st time you get caught in the rain or wash it it will stop, ask me how i know
I put a couple wraps of header tape on my pipes. In front for the mag in the rear to keep the heat off the oil tank.
If you have no mark on TDC then I'd think you're on the advance mark. I use a timing light to set the stop on the mag.
Honestly not trying to be a smartass here with the below but mags aint the same when all is at a standstill.
Starting a mag fired bike, Seems most all want to get the machine up about as tight has it will go on the compression stroke piddle with the kicker to get it just where they want it, 9 or 10 o’clock and then kick it through. That doesn’t work well with a mag fired bike. You need to give the mag a chance to wind up, it has to turn to make fire. Everybody else has stored energy on tap, the mag doesn’t. I kick thru mine where ever it lies and it faithfully starts. But, my machine loves me. I saved her from a disgraceful existence. Have you loved on your pan today?
I put a couple wraps of header tape on my pipes. In front for the mag in the rear to keep the heat off the oil tank.
If you have no mark on TDC then I'd think you're on the advance mark. I use a timing light to set the stop on the mag.
Honestly not trying to be a smartass here with the below but mags aint the same when all is at a standstill.
Starting a mag fired bike, Seems most all want to get the machine up about as tight has it will go on the compression stroke piddle with the kicker to get it just where they want it, 9 or 10 o’clock and then kick it through. That doesn’t work well with a mag fired bike. You need to give the mag a chance to wind up, it has to turn to make fire. Everybody else has stored energy on tap, the mag doesn’t. I kick thru mine where ever it lies and it faithfully starts. But, my machine loves me. I saved her from a disgraceful existence. Have you loved on your pan today?
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
Ahh, my leg is cramping from kicking my bike!!! Well, i took my magneto off and cleaned the points and checked the point gap. Now i get a better spark, but only as the breaker lifts off of one of the lobes it seems. Im getting the bike to fire, but only one or two pops and it blows a bunch of smoke out of the carb. I have heard it fire both of the cylinders once or twice, but it is mainly only firing the front cylinder. Also, i can only really get it to fire when i have the mag fully advanced. When i retard the mag i get a small bang every once and a while, but not much. Ugh i feel like im close, but no closer than i was in the begining when i actually got the bike started a couple of times.
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
Sounding more and more like an intake manifold leak....
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
Ok, Ok, im going to go out and take the carb off and try to rig up some sort of pressure testing setup. I dont trust the two piece brass intake clamps i put on the bike, so this may be a problem. I will let you know what i find.
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Re: stroker panhead with magneto, need help!!
I've never tried those two-piece clamps, but i've heard they can damage the o-rings. Let us know how it goes.